Episode 12: The two hats: Switching your mode between facilitating and presenting with Paul Hellman
On Episode 12 of the First Time Facilitator podcast, I interview Paul Hellman from Express Potential about his secrets for communication in a distracted world.Paul believes presenters only have 8 seconds to grab their audience’s attention.
On Episode 12 of the First Time Facilitator podcast, I interview Paul Hellman from Express Potential about his secrets for communication in a distracted world.Paul believes presenters only have 8 seconds to grab their audience’s attention.
In this show you’ll learn
How you can break through to ensure your message is heard (even in a distracted world)
How he likens facilitation to conducting a job interview
The great advice he received when he started leading workshops about wearing two hats (and why it's dangerous if you mix them up)
Why you need to use stories and analogies in your workshops to add more colour (even if you're just presenting facts)
How to create a stronger, more confident presence (even though most of us think that presence is a mythical beast)
How he has personally developed his communication skills (and how you can do it too
Why there is a performance element in every interaction, including email and why warm-ups help to create a positive mood.
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About our guest
Paul Hellman consults and speaks internationally. He has advised thousands of executives and professionals during his career. Companies hire Paul to get faster results from presentations, meetings, emails. His latest book is You've got 8 Seconds: Communication Secrets for a Distracted World. His columns have appeared in leading newspapers like the New York Times and Wall Street Journal.
Resources
First Time Facilitator podcast transcript (Episode 11)
Leanne : Our guest today helps their client's to overcome the physiological, psychological, and creative barriers to expressing themselves with poise and clarity. She's performed both as a soloist and in choirs at venues including the Sydney Opera House, the Royal Albert Hall and BBC Radio in the UK. She's the founder of Find Your Voice, a vocal training organization dedicated to training people from all walks of life to master their voice and give strong performances. Welcome to the show Emmanuella Grace.
Emmanuella Grace: Thank you for having me.
Leanne : Thanks so much for coming on the show nice and early at 7:30 in the morning, and we're talking about voices.
Emmanuella: It's the best time of day [laughs].
Leanne : It is. It is. I'd love for you to tell our listeners your story, how you wound up as a voice coach and leading this company Find Your Voice.
Emmanuella: Yes. I'll give you the abbreviated version because one piece of advice I was given by a mentor of mine, James Morrison, was that I was at a camp and someone asked him what was your big break, and he said, "I didn't get a big break. There were lots of little breaks". I think that's something really important to consider when you have a big picture in mind, or certainly in the performing industry, people have these ideals that they will sign a record deal and their life is made. What they're receiving is that message that your voice doesn't belong here; your voice doesn't have validity here. We don't want to hear you because we don't like how it sounds.
I was lucky enough to have some people back me over the years later on where I was stubbornly determined to become a singer irrespective, so I found the people to train me and the resources to help me become that because nothing makes me want to do something like being told I can't. I think not everyone has that determination because they don't have the vision.
One of the first things I work on with clients and people often feel like it's a really strange thing; they don't really see how it fits is the first session is always working out where are you going with this. What do you actually want? What do you actually want from your life? Because how are you ever going to be determined to go up against those challenges and keep going and survive the discouragements, survive the setbacks if you don't have a really clear vision of where you're going. It's impossible.
Leanne : Yes.
Emmanuella: Because you will just be taken out at the first barrier.
Leanne : That's right. I think it's true when you mention the subliminal messages. You don't really pick those up and respond to it. At least you take it on over time if it's reinforced. We develop that mindset about ourselves which has been given to us by other people.
Emmanuella: It's heartbreaking especially in Anglo-Saxon coaches where singing has been relegated to a part of our culture that only belongs to crazy people or talented people [laughs]. Singing is one of those liberating things. It's so good for your health, but you can only have that if you're crazy or if you're talented because otherwise, you should really keep that to the shower.
Leanne : True. I was living in Ireland for about six to eight months, and I went to a house party one night. It was two in the morning, and everyone's bringing out their musical instruments. Everyone was singing and had this amazing voice. I was like, "This would never happen in Australia", and it was amazing.
Emmanuella: No, exactly. You don't go to indigenous cultures where the whole village is singing, and then one guy sits in the corner and claps his sticks because we don't like his voice. I think it's really important to make the differentiation between having a good voice and it being someone's aesthetic bias. I talk a lot with my clients about aesthetic bias which means what I think sounds good. When I first started out coaching, I worked with a massive range of voices, everything from people in screamo having metal bands through to folk singers because I was predominantly coaching singers initially.
I don't have to like the sound of your voice. I don't have to like what you do with it. My job is to help you do what you want to do with it in a way that's healthy and free. If it's healthy and if you are doing what it is you want to do in a way that's technically correct, I don't have to like your voice. There's a lot of teachers or people calling themselves coaches out there that what they're saying is "I don't like the sound of your voice. Therefore, your voice is bad". That is heartbreaking to me because our job is not to inflict our opinions on our clients. It's to help our clients get to where they want to go and be objective.
Leanne : Fantastic. That really makes sense when your business is called Find Your Voice Australia. It's finding your own voice. What do you say to people-- I know even through the process of recording this podcast and listening to myself, a lot of people- I do it myself too -say, "I hate my voice". What do you say to people that--
Emmanuella: I love that you ask me that question actually because I would have the same impulse if I were to listen to what I'm hearing which is actually not my voice. It is sound waves that have come out of my mouth, being through ambiance space in a room have been picked up by a digital machine, compressed, transmitted somewhere, fed back through a really cheap bit of recording material and then ended up back through some really poor quality speakers back in my ears. Actually, I'm not hearing my voice. What I'm hearing is digital impulses that have been transformed into something that represents my voice.
It's a little bit like if you had a really bad photo of you taken one day drunkenly at a birthday party on your 20th, and then when you're 40, you're like, "No, that's what I still look like, and that's what I look like all the time". It's a snapshot of you in that moment from a not very flattering angle, and this recording equipment will never give you a flattering angle.
Leanne : That's very reassuring. Thank you.
Emmanuella: [laughs] Yes.
Leanne : Why is voice so important? We understand for performances. We go to the opera, or you hear someone sing the national anthem. It's super important, but why is voice important just in our day to day interactions?
Emmanuella: It's a good question. There's a few reasons. Firstly, it's often in contemporary culture when we speak on phones and things the first point of contact we have with people. What is your voice telling people? Think about the messages that you're giving that are not just verbal because verbally the messages you give, the words you choose, the tone of your voice, these are all things that are conveying information as well not just how you sound. You have all this information being conveyed to a person, but all you're thinking about probably are the words that you're saying if that.
The second reason voice is important-- Tone of voice we don't just coach the voice. We coach the whole body, and we also coach mindset. The reason for that is when you walk into a room, even before you speak you have conveyed an awful lot of information, and people have often made an assessment of you in the first few seconds. If you walk in and you're the best-looking person in the room that stands up straight and makes eye contact, you're already assumed- there's research that shows this- you're already assumed to be smarter than everyone else in the room.
With that bias, how does that affect how people are going to relate to you if they have already come from an assumption that you know more than they do because you stand up straight; you make eye contact, and you look confident. You haven't even opened your mouth yet. Then imagine that this person who appeared to be so confident has this whiny, tiny insignificant little voice. They've immediately undermined all that gain that they have just from their appearance. If they can reinforce that with a really confident voice, I'm sure they can tell you that there are pink elephants in Spain, and you might just have a moment where you believe them because they've come to you with such authority.
Leanne : Yes.
Emmanuella: This is something that the extroverts know post Industrial Revolution. A little bit of a rant of mine, I have a passion of coaching introverts because let's be honest, they're the deep thinkers that have that process, but they're losing out in contemporary culture in terms of how we employ people because they don't have the natural hotspur that extroverts have. The extrovert will walk into the room with his head high and with a confident voice. They may not have that deep thought process, but people are going to believe them.
Post Industrial Revolution, the most powerful people, the people that were promoted were the ones that could sell the best. You sell the best units, you must be the best, and if you're the confident one, you will sell better. Whereas a lot of today's problems need to be resolved by thinkers, the introverts, but they don't have the natural skill set that's acquired as part of their personality type to walk into the room with their head high and their shoulders squared and make eye contact and convey those thoughts. They get lost in the details. When they are speaking to people, they don't sound confident, so the information they're giving- I see it in boardrooms all the time -is being passed over.
Actually, they might have some absolutely brilliant, lateral thoughts or insightful things to share that could really resolve problems, but they're speaking in a way that undermines their credibility. I have a special passion for working with introverts to help them sit up at that table and present with the confidence of an extrovert but share the information of an introvert. It's amazing, and I've seen careers just launch, just absolutely skyrocket.
The thing is sometimes people say, "I don't want to be fake. I don't want to come across as someone I'm not". That's a really legitimate concern, but the thing is if those thoughts are yours, it's like learning to dress a little better, learning to wear jeans that fit well or clothes that are tailored well. You're still choosing the clothes. You're still choosing things that suit you and doing it your way. You're doing it in a way where you will feel confident, and you will present yourself better. You're kind of giving yourself a super power.
Leanne : That is really an interesting approach that you spoke about: mindset and even the way that you move and the way that you present your body. When you have your client come in for the first meeting or one-on-one and you start doing that, you said that they are a bit confused and not too sure what was happening. I thought they'll just be warming up their voices and doing all those sort of things.
Emmanuella: Correct. There's a lot of people out there training short term solutions. Find Your Voice is a passion project for me. I didn't start this company because I needed the money. I started this because when I started coaching-- I put an ad in the paper in London-- not the paper, in Gumtree for voice lessons instead of singing lessons. I started getting people coming to me from the city. I got doctors and bankers and things, but the only thing I knew to do was teach them to sing initially.
I wasn't a singing teacher. I'd gotten into coaching because someone had asked me to coach them. I'd said, "I'm not a singing teacher". She said, "No, I want a coach. I want you to teach me what it is you do". Because there's lots of people who can teach you how to sing but to get up on stage and have that poise and that control of an audience and that control of yourself and your band and be able to have an awareness of everything that's happening in the environment and be able to lead that with confidence, that's what she wanted to learn how to do.
When I put this note in Gumtree that I was going to teach, the people I was attracting weren't only singers. That made me start to realize there is a lot of people out there that don't have ownership of their voice. There's nothing wrong with their voices. Their voices are healthy. What's wrong is their attitude towards their voices, and then that's being manifest through their body. Their voice is the sound that comes out of your body. You wouldn't take a trumpet and beat it up and fill it with mud and be like, "Why doesn't this play well?"
You have to look after the instrument. You have to think about how is the instrument that is creating this sound being used, so I started working with their bodies.
I had one guy. I was working with a medical organization in a collaboration where he'd been to every doctor there was. It was when they were having the recession. Everything was just crashing down in London. This guy had been to every doctor there was, and he still couldn't breathe. This guy was worth millions, just could have had anything he wanted, and he hadn't been able to breathe in six months. He was terrified. They'd send him home from work. They called me, and they are like, "Look, someone had suggested singing lessons. You seem a little left of field. Will you see this guy?" I was like, "Yes, sure. Send him over". Probably not my most professional moment but he came in.
He was sitting on the couch in the corner of my studio just like huddled up, completely scrunched up. If he could have disappeared into the corner of that couch in the corner of that room, I think that's what he would have wanted. I got him to lay on the floor and start breathing. He was really distressed. Finally, I put my hand on him just to-- I said, "Do you mind, I'm going to touch you?" "Yes, that's fine", just to adjust his poise and he started to shake. Then he started to cry and just sob, just sob like I've never seen anything like it.
I just said, "I'll give you a hug". I didn't know what else to do. I was thinking about all the training that I'd had in physiology where you bind people that are overwhelmed. I just held him for 10, 15 minutes. This guy just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. Then he said to me, "I haven't been touched in six years. I won't let my wife touch me because I'm scared I will fall apart".
He just sobbed, and then by the end of the session he was breathing easily. Then I got a message saying, "Thank you so much. Keep the money for all the other sessions. I actually booked a trip for my family and I to Spain. We're gone". He was like, "I can breathe again. and that's all that I needed". That is a person whose voice is so constricted. He couldn't even ask for a hug from his wife. He couldn't even find the words. He couldn't even give himself the permission to ask for something he needed so desperately for that long.
It just bound him up. His whole body was bound up. If I can help people find a way to release that tension and release that energy so that they can feel free to express themselves in a way that's rewarding and that's honest and that's candid, then I think you can say that that's someone finding their voice.
Leanne : Well done you.
Emmanuella: Going to university in Australia, I did master's in education, and one of the big rules is don't touch people. I really came up against that because I thought, "I think that there is a place for human touch". I think ask permission first and keep it appropriate, and make sure that you match appropriate coaches with the right person. I think that there does need to be a space for touch in the coaching room if we're training bodies. You wouldn't tell a physio they can't touch you.
Leanne : Yes. It's about the context. You did mention that you had some training in physiology that supported you in that moment.
Emmanuella: Exactly, right. I was hit by a car when I was 18, and it was pretty serious. I couldn't really function very well for many years. I discovered Alexander Technique as part of my training in acting. Alexander Technique is just one of the number of ways of learning to use your body. There's a lot out there like [unintelligible 00:15:41] and things. They're all really good. What essentially they do is help you develop an awareness of how you use your body in a space and help you maintain good poise.
When I went back and studied music, I took every elective there was in anatomy. At Melbourne Uni when I did my master's in performance there, there was some very good teachers that had a background in physiology that they would teach us about the voice in the context. Also, when I was in London, I started working with a lot of physios and doctors after I had a vocal injury, just kind of picking their brains as we went through the process of healing me and then later on collaborating with the British Association of Performing Arts Medicine so working with doctors and physios to help treat other musicians.
Then I was actually on the board of a charity here in Australia [unintelligible 00:16:27 which is again for performing arts health. I have a real interest in how the body affects us as performers. You might be the most brilliant musician mentally, but if you can't actually deliver that using again your instrument, what good it to you?
Leanne : What about listeners that are tuning in and they believe that they've got a few blockers? They might be at a board meeting, and they're kind of squeaking out their ideas. What are some things that they can do? Are there any ways they can reflect? What can they do to start that process of finding their voice?
Emmanuella: I think developing a sense of self awareness is really important. I have one thing that I advice people to do especially when they start to feel the adrenaline kick off. You know you're going speak, then the adrenaline kicks off. The first thing that happens is your throat closes over because part of the fight flight of freeze response in our body is to protect our lungs because you can be brain dead and still alive, but if you're not breathing, you're a cactus. The body's first impulse is to protect the lungs, so it will close over the throat which is a valve that closes to stopping anything getting into the lungs. You will have this impulse. You'll feel like your throat is closing over because it is.
We have this amazing nerve in our body called the vagus nerve. I love it. It sounds like a party. It actually runs through your whole system. If you take a nice deep breath in through the nose, it will stimulate that. It's also what when babies rub their eyes or when we as [unintelligible 00:17:59] kind of touch our face reassuring or distracted way, we're stimulating that nerve or in yoga when you do the Ujjayi breath. Taking a breath through the nose and then I say, "Count to three while you do it".
Because there's another exercise I teach people called the three second pause. It's amazing what you can gain with three seconds of pausing.
It will feel like a long time to you, but it will really open up the room. It's one of those things where if you take the three seconds pause and you use that time to breathe in through your nose before you go, you'll be more centered and more present, and your thought process will be clear. I would combine that with a exercise that we do called red and yellow cards which is we prepare some phrases in advance for situations that you know you'll feel nervous in. If for you interjecting in a conversation makes you feel the stress or you feel uncertain, write up some phrases that will help you to do that and then practice them, like, "I would like to interject here", then do your three second pause. You've got everyone's attention then you go.
Leanne : That is such a great technique.
Emmanuella: Yes, this is something that I use for everything, from helping people deal with bullies through to the boardroom.
Leanne : On that note of working with diverse audiences, do you change anything when someone comes in, a client comes in, or do you have a prescribed process and that's what you'll take them through? How does it work from working with bullies through to the boardroom?
Emmanuella: There is still some fundamental things that will apply to all of us as human beings. I have distilled those into some concepts that I also train my team in. That being said, everyone that's on my team are professional performers. They're actually out there everyday doing it which can make it really interesting trying to book them to coach because they're all doing shows or gigs or whatever. The thing is you're working with people that actually do it everyday. They're not someone that went to university, got a piece of paper and then never performed again. They understand what it’s like to go through that process. What they have been able to do and what I do is when a person is in a room with you, you meet them where they’re at. Let go of all preconceptions that you had. This isn’t about you; it’s about the person that you’re in that room to nurture in that moment. I know that in business it’s smarter to do one-too-many. You make more money, and that’s fine, but that’s not what we’re doing here.
I think everyone has their individual things that are bothering them. Even if you can fit those things in to a number of categories so that you can take a generalized approach, each person still needs to feel like they’ve been heard. They need to feel like you’re there for them and that’s transformative having someone give you their undivided attention. We do have some modules that we apply, that we teach everyone, but in that moment it is personalized for you because everyone is different, and then everyone is the same.
We all have essentially the same mechanics. The thought that is hijacking those mechanics and causing perhaps some kind of amygdala freak-out where you’re triggering fear and fright or freeze, that might be different for each person, but the outcome is the same. Physiologically, we’re having the same response, but for one person it might be that I’m scared of dogs and another person that might be I’m scared of rejection. You’re going to apply the same solution, but you might approach it slightly differently for each person. I think the long term results are more lasting, and the solution is reached faster when you actually make it specific to that person rather than trying to generalize.
Leanne : Let’s talk about facilitators as an audience listening in. Sometimes they’re asked to run one day workshops through to five day workshops. Or they work in corporate jobs where they’re in meetings all the time, and towards the end of the week or the end of that day their voice might be getting croaky. Their throat is getting soar. What do you recommend? Are they doing something wrong?
Emmanuella: We have a vocal care sheet that we send that to everyone when their voice starts to feel that way just as a "Hey, thought you might like this". Actually, remind me later, and I’m happy to send that over to you. Feel free to share that with your readers or your listeners. Where are we? 1870.
Leanne : [laughs]
Emmanuella: Your voice shouldn’t get to that stage. [clears throat] Excuse me. It's early. Your voice shouldn’t get to that stage. It’s preventable. Babies can scream for hours and not lose their voice [laughs]. There’s no reason for your voice to get to that stage. There's some really fundamental things we can do to look after our voices. The difference is that an athlete would know that. An athlete would think, "If I’m going to run a marathon, I’m going to do everything it takes to look after this body that has to deliver me there". Whereas we take our voices for granted.
The first thing that happens when we’re under pressure is self care goes out the window, so is every chance you will neglect sleep because you’ve got to be on a plane. Then you’re on that plane and you’re probably going to have a glass of wine instead of some water. You’re probably going to read those papers that you really should have read last week on the way to the meeting instead of taking a nap. On long distance, I actually fly with a- what’s called a humidifier which stops my voice from drying out.
We do all these things that are actually counterintuitive to caring for ourselves so that when we get there and we actually have the pressure on us, we haven’t given ourselves the best chance of delivering. What we’ve actually done is undermine all the resources that we’re now going to rely on to deliver. We haven’t slept enough. We haven’t mentally prepared or done our meditation or yoga or whatever it is that usually helps you get in to a good head space. By the time you feel thirsty, it’s about two hours too late.
A lot of people that I work with as professional singers sleep now with humidifiers. I think they’re a fantastic thing. Even if you can just take the hand-held one for you, that keeps the vocal cords warm and moist. Then what we do is we put ourselves in front of a room where we have adrenaline in our body, so the throat is probably tighter than usual. We drink a lot of coffee. We probably had drinks the night before with alcohol. You’ve got to think about how the vocal cords are put together.
They’ve got a very, very thin epithelial skin layer on top, and then you have a number of mucosa layers and then muscle. If those mucosa layers are dehydrated, they’re not going to bounce the way they ought to. That very thin skin layer is going to end up basically with the equivalent of wind burn or some kind of bruising. Over the course of the day, the vocal cords will swell. You’ll get more husky, so what do you do? You push harder. You try and go louder. What you’re doing is taking an injured part of the body and putting it under more pressure.
Leanne : Everything you’re saying I was like, "Yes, that’s tick, tick tick". Because I’m really more concerned about the material that I’m delivering and making sure I’m really good at that. I will spend the extra hours researching things, watching videos, getting very clear rehearsing, and I won't take that time to rest. I did-[crosstalk]
Emmanuella: Then you create a vicious cycle. What happens when your voice starts to go is you start to become self conscious, so then you start to do all these things that actually make it harder for your voice to function. You will probably start to tense up your shoulders, and you’ll start to try and push a little harder. You’ll probably speak more because you’re trying to compensate rather than taking your three-second pause and knowing where you’re going, trusting your authority because you know where you’re headed with this.
Taking that step back, it would actually enable you to use less words, ask for that glass of water that you need, take those pauses that will buy you the space, chose your words more carefully so you’re actually having to do less work and relax your body.
Leanne : I was going to ask you your advice for first time facilitators, but I think that’s it. It would be to choose your words wisely, not take your voice for granted. Probably prepare further in advance than the night before so you do get that long rest.
Emmanuella: No one would listen to their favorite Nick Cave album a thousand times like I have and then assume that when he’s in town, you could get up with him because you’ve listened to the album. You'd still have to show up to the rehearsal room and practice the chords and practice the words and actually go through before being like, "Hey Nick, let’s do a gig together". You'd actually have to do the work. You'd have to do the practice.
I’m kind of bemused at the idea of people thinking that because they’ve listened to the albums, they’re ready to play a gig. That’s the same as what we’re doing, "Yes, I read this stuff. I know where I’m going with this". You need to stand in front of a mirror and say it out loud. You need to see what words don't flow well, see what makes you trip, see what thoughts don’t feel sincere and so you're hesitant when they come up.
If you don’t feel that you’re speaking with authenticity, your subconscious is going to hijack that speech. If you’re saying something that you really don’t believe in because you’ve been put there by your company to speak it, you’re not going to give your best performance because you’re coming from a place that isn’t authentic, so subconsciously you’re going to be pulling yourself back. You need to find a place to speak from where you really believe what you’re saying. That’s why I got knowing what your big picture is, knowing what your [unintelligible 00:27:32] is so important because that will help you navigate these situations.
Leanne : You’re right. I've written down work scripts for workshops to introduce a concept. When I’m rehearsing, I’m reading through it going, "This isn’t me. I can’t say this confidently", so I have to restructure the whole sentence to make sure that will work and that I’m more confident delivering it because like you said, they’ll pick up very quickly when one is saying these words on a page that don’t resonate with you. They certainly won’t resonate with your audience.
Emmanuella: Exactly, right. The audience can pick a fake.
Leanne : Big time.
Emmanuella: They won’t be kind to it. You need the loyalty of your audience. You can’t connect with them, whether it be on stage or in a boardroom unless you have their loyalty first or that they feel that they can relate to you or connect with you in some way. If you’re being fraudulent, they’re not going to trust you.
Leanne : You spoke about being authentic as a way to connect with your audience. Are there any other skills that you think a good facilitator or a trainer really needs?
Emmanuella: I think it’s really important to know what’s important to you first. We’re often in professional environments put in positions to do things that maybe don’t necessarily resonate with us initially. It’s really important to meet those KPIs and still do it in a way that’s authentic for you because if you’re someone who’s just going through the motions, you might tick those boxes but, A, you’re not going to enjoy what you’re doing and B, it’s not going to be a nice experience for anyone else who’s in the room with you.
Life is short; we don’t have a lot of it. I think if we want to enjoy our lives, we need to find ways to do something that we love. I have a four-week old baby, and I’m up at seven o’clock in the morning to speak with you because I’m talking about something that gives me so much energy because every day I do it I feel enlightened. The entirety of my 20s, I had family members and people saying, "Aren’t you scared you’re going to be broke? Aren’t you tired of being a broke artist? What are you doing with your life?" I just go, "I’m doing what I love".
Now in my 30s, I’m really very grateful to have a life where I feel that I have an abundance of everything I could ever ask for, from friends through to resources where now I can pass it on to other people. If facilitation is what turns you on, then find out what it is about facilitation that excites you and bring that in to the room. Bring that into the room with you, and share that excitement with people because you've got to where you are somehow for a reason. You didn't wake up one day and now you're doing this. It was lots of little steps that got you there. Go back to the heart of this. Go back to what it is that excites you, and then bring them into the room because that will then excite other people and you'll move through your day with more energy. For the introverts, I've had people that have achieved a particular level in their career, and then they're asked to go in a panel, or they're asked to engage in some kind of situation where people are going to be looking at them, and they think, "I don't talk about myself". I can really understand that discomfort, but I encourage them to think of it like this: You have something that the people in that room would like to share in. When you go into that panel, think of it not that it is about you promoting yourself or talking about yourself. You're actually going into the room and giving these people something that they really want. You're sharing with them a gift that they really want.
That approach has had some of my clients really transform not only their careers, but I've had other people come to me later. Just seeing that person engage in that way has transformed their lives because they got what they needed in that moment. If that person had gone in with the attitude that they were talking about themselves, they might have been far more reserved and less candid.
Leanne : Talking about sharing a gift, I think that is what facilitation is all about. Not only sharing your gift but sharing [unintelligible 00:31:29] of all the people in the room with each other and then creating that amazing atmosphere in the room. The reason I started the podcast really because I was sick of seeing people just getting up there. I agree life is too short. Now, wasting our time with these presentations that just didn't have any impact or didn't turn anyone's behavior or change anything or ignite an idea anyone. I'm really here just to make sure that-- not make sure but encourage people to really follow what they like and bring some of that energy and excitement and discuss creating-
Emmanuella: Look what happens to your face. Listen to what happens to your voice and your body language. The minute you start thinking about something you love, your face lights up. Your body opens up. Your voice is clearer. That's why if you're functioning from a place where you're really working with what's important to you and what really turns you on, your voice already will start to manifest that and show that in a way that's clear without you having to do warm-ups, without you having to understand the anatomy, and without you having to hop on one leg, stick your finger in your ear, look at the ceiling, and do all these really fancy exercises to get it. Just find what turns you on. It's a really good first step.
Leanne : I love it. Emmanuella, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I think it's going to be so useful for all of our listeners. I don't think people really notice the impact of voice, and we do take it for granted because it's something that we use all the time. I think all of your tips have been amazing. I know they're not-[crosstalk]
Emmanuella: Anytime. It's my pleasure.
Leanne : I think mindset's really critical. Where can people find you?
Emmanuella: My name is Emmanuella Grace. I founded a company called Find Your Voice. If you want to see me, I work with a kind of more selective group, but I also have an amazing team that if I can't see you then you can see them. I speak with everyone that comes into our company at this time because I want to work out what is the best service for them. We don't have a one-size-fits-all approach. I would definitely say give Find Your Voice a call. We will have a conversation that determines what it is you need and how we can help you because you might need one session with a vocal coach, or you might need six months with me.
Everyone's going to be coming from a different place. We really want to meet people where they're at. It's not about a kind of formula. It's about helping you work out what's important to you and helping you get there and achieve those goals and feel fulfilled and feel energized. That's what we want to help you do. findyourvoiceaustralia.com is our website. We coach all over the world. We used to have Find Your Voice, London, but we consolidated.
Leanne : Wow, [crosstalk] down under. We'll link to both of your websites in the show notes as well as that vocal care sheet.
Emmanuella: I will email that through to you now.
Leanne : That would be awesome. Thank you so much Emmanuella. Love having you [crosstalk].
Emmanuella: My pleasure.
Episode 10: Keeping workshop content fresh after 25 years (and how I was inspired by a flamenco dancing facilitator) with Scott Amy
In Episode 10 of the First Time Facilitator podcast, Scott Amy from the Pacific Institute shares his secrets on Socratic facilitation and how he was inspired by a faciltator who incorporated flamenco dancing in his workshop.
In Episode 10 of the First Time Facilitator podcast, Scott Amy from the Pacific Institute shares his secrets on Socratic facilitation and how he was inspired by a faciltator who incorporated flamenco dancing in his workshop.
In this episode you’ll learn
Why seeing a strong facilitator (who used a style of flamenco dancing in his workshops) inspired Scott to leave the Defence force
How he’s run the same workshop for 25 years and how he keeps it energised/content fresh
How facilitators need confidence in themselves, ability to grow, desire to grow the org their working with; and their ability to engage people
What Socratic facilitation is all about and how it can help you discover the truth for your participants
Three great questions you can use to implement Socractic facilitation in your next workshop
About our guest
Scott Amy, Manager Client Services with The Pacific Institute has worked extensively in training, facilitating, coaching and project design with clients in many countries around the world, including Singapore, Indonesia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and Australia.Working with The Pacific Institute since 1994, he has been involved in many project roles with clients from a very broad cross section of industry, education and community. Working with leadership and executive management levels through to front line operations staff, professional educators, students and community development resources, has provided him with valuable experience into how people think and behave in situations of change and leadership.With a strong background in training and training design, his skills in communication, allow him to reach all levels of an organisation and teams providing maximum outcomes. Combined with his Socratic approach to facilitation, which encourages participants to find their own solutions by working through options and applying information, Scott is one of The Pacific Institute’s most requested resources.Scott has been a student of leadership, and its effects for many years, and with a Defence Force background in training and education, has used these experiences as a basis for his continuing studies in Effective Leadership.He has played a major role in developing people and organisations with clients such as: Coca Cola, Snowy Hydro Limited, AMP Insurance, Queensland Education Department, Television Corporation of Singapore, Air New Zealand, Fonterra and Rio Tinto
Resources
Video we discussed: Forget big charge, start with a tiny habbit.View the First Time Facilitator episode 10 transcript.
First Time Facilitator Podcast transcript with Cherelle Witney (Episode 9)
Leanne: Our guest today believes that being curious to learn keeps us energized and connected throughout our work and our life. She loves ideas, innovative thinking and what-if questions, and is passionate about lifting people's personal and professional capability to lead and manage.
She runs a company called LIFT Performance Solutions out of Perth. Her aim, as a facilitator, is to inspire her participants with real experiences that make learning practical and fun. Welcome to the show, Cherelle Witney.
Cherelle Witney: Thank you, Leanne, for having me. This is fun already.
Leanne: Cherelle, our listeners may not know, but we met when I was living in Broome working for TAFE. We would fly you up every so often to help us out with our leaders. I've only really known you as a facilitator. Can you tell us a bit about your career journey and how you wound up with the position that you're in now?
Cherelle: Actually, where we met in Broome was one of the best jobs, because it was paradise. It's always nice to come to a gorgeous venue, with gorgeous down-to-earth people like you. I loved that job, but really, that was the culmination of probably about 20 years of training and facilitating. I started my journey in my early 20s as a paralegal in a law firm.
I had no idea that I was going to become a trainer or a facilitator. Back then, I was looking for a job where I could earn some money and use my skills.
I was very lucky and I have continued to be lucky along my journey to have some great mentors. The guy who ran the law firm in Perth was very big on training and development of his staff. I quickly became, in a fast-growing law firm, the trainer for about 130 staff and also managing those staff. I cut my teeth there in training and development, and I learnt a lot about team building.
I had a very supportive boss who was keen to expose me to a lot of new tools at a young age. He was also a good mentor as well. He very much believed in meditating at the start and the end of each day to keep your mind fresh and keep your mindfulness present in your work, kind of unusual for a lawyer. [laughs] He was a great role model for me. I've taken that through to my facilitation tools and skills throughout my career, being present and being ready and up with your energy to work the room and the group.
After I worked in law for seven years, I started my first business which was called Traveling World it was an art selling business so completely different to law, but that was my first step into an entrepreneurial kind of space. Then, I worked in tourism for a few years in a sector of support area. That CEO that I worked closely with was very good at creating the bigger picture and the energy around an event.
I learnt quite good skills from her about knowing who’s in the room as a facilitator and knowing how to build the atmosphere to be safe and fun. She liked fun and I liked fun, so that worked very well for us. We ran some of the best events in Perth for tourism in that time. After I did that, I started my business as a consultant, and I started off doing database management of all things which was just bizarre now I look back, but it had an element of connecting people.
Back then, there was no such thing called a CRM or Customer Relationship Management, but that's what I was doing is working on the data to make it sense for the customer. I think that's one of my skill sets as a facilitator, is bringing the agenda, whatever the organization needs and the people together so that they feel connected with it. That began my consulting journey. I also started the first internet cafe for people over 55, back in 2000. I had a vision about old people needing to have some space where they could just train and learn in a positive comfortable, safe space. Back then, all the internet cafes were full of young kids, old people were feeling a bit isolated.
We started that business in Perth and again I used my training skills and facilitation skills to bring a very scary medium, being the internet, to people that were scared of it, older people over 55 to 60, 65, and bring the two together so that they could be more than they had thought possible. I had some great memories. That business didn't make any money because it was a bit too early on the market, but I have some great memories of people being 70 and being able to see their grandchild in London for the first time or email a photo and understand how they could cross the world in a few seconds.
Then, my most recent part of my career has been seven years in the Department of Health, and then what is now about nine years in my consultancy with LIFT. That last chunk of time-- You can work that I’m fairly old by now. [laughs] That last chunk of time has really allowed me to develop my leadership and team development practices. Now, I have culminated that in my keynote talks around the courage to create whatever you want to create in your life, in your work, in your home or your sporting career, whatever it might be.
All of those things, I guess it’s a long answer, Leanne, but all of those things along my journey when I look back have each taught me something different and have allowed me to be a facilitator now that has a good wealth of diverse experience in different industries first hand, and also has the ability to understand other industries and other people that might be in my groups to some degree to perfection.
Leanne: You're not kidding about diverse industries and experience, that's absolutely huge. The common thread in what you're talking about is you always bring out this concept of creating a safe environment, something that you're very passionate about. How do you create a safe environment in your workshops?
Cherelle: That's a great question. I think the best way to create a safe environment is be yourself. Don't go in as a facilitator trying to be something that you either think the group wants or that you think a facilitator should be. It's so important to have authenticity because you've got less than three minutes to build that trusting space with your group, especially, if you haven't met them before.
I always say to people, "Be yourself", and obviously, be professional, think about how you dress, how you move, what your body language is conveying and to create a trusting space where what you say actually is relevant to them and you're not telling them, you're asking them the whole time. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from my mentor was, "The wisdom is in the room."
If you go in with that mindset that you are the facilitator, but you're not the teller of all the information, you don't know the industry, you don't know their challenges, you're there to help them explore all of that, and find an answer, that will come out in the first three minutes. If that's your mindset, that'll come out in the way you talk and the way you move, that you're genuinely there for them not for you. You've got to put your ego in a box, leave it at the door because you're there to help the group not to show them how much knowledge you have.
Leanne: Lovely. That's the first time I've ever heard the concept of the first three minutes. How did you find out about that? What is it about three minutes?
Cherelle: I think that's just my own thought. From experience, when you're meeting people one-to-one, you got 30 seconds before they make a judgment of you and I think there's some research to back that up.
In the room, you've got that first three minutes where you're saying, “Welcome to the day, this is what the day is about”, people are sitting there either thinking, “I wish I wasn't here or what is this girl? Does she actually know her stuff?” all of these kind of chatter in their head. In that three minutes, if you can talk to them maybe for me, I had a little bit of humor because that's my nature if that's authentic for you, do that.
If it's a very serious meeting, then I get right down to why we're here and what are we going to achieve by the end of the day. That helps release a bit of pressure and people go, “Okay right, it's not just going to all be talk, we're actually going to get to an outcome.”
That three minutes is your chance to build a quick bond that they believe in you. You still got to build on that over the rest of the day.
Leanne: You spoke about for you, it's about being authentic, and your authentic self is quite humorous and you're fun. In your observation, what are other critical skills for a facilitator?
Cherelle: There's a couple of ways you can look at this. The IAF, International Association of Facilitators, have core competencies. There are six of them. You can Google 'IAF core competencies' and it will come up. They’re in a lot more detail. People that like the detail and maybe want to work towards a checklist, that would be good for them have a look at. For me, I've got 12 things that I always make sure I'm doing. Absolutely number one is be prepared. You can not go in the room not prepared. You need to know the industry, you need to have looked at their website.
You need to know who's in the room which is another part of that. You don't need to know a lot about the people but you need to know what level they are at, are they managers, leaders frontline, that kind of thing. You need to build that inclusive trusting safe environment in that first three minutes. You have to have a plan of how you do that and know the content of the day. If it's serious content around heavy strategic planning or downsizing or upsizing whatever it is, then in that three minutes talk about that. Name that elephant in the room if there is such a thing.
If it's more of a fun day then encourage them and let them know they're going to have fun. Set some ground rules. You’ve absolutely got to do that because not everyone's coming for the same reason. How we're going to listen? What are our values? What are we going to stick to? Do that by asking them what the ground rules need to be. I see some facilitators telling the group what the ground rules are going to be, that's not going to stick.
I guess a couple of the other things out of the 12 I've got are, you need to manage your time. You absolutely need to know the time schedule of how this day is going to run. You can't get to an hour and before the end time and you've still got two hours of material to do. For me, that is my Achilles' heel because I'm more creative than time-bound, so I've got to be careful about that. For other facilitators, it's been easier.
You have to go in optimistic, adaptive, flexible. You’ve got your whole session plan, you've prepped the hell out of it but things change and you've got to be able to let that go and go, "Okay, this is where the group needs to or wants to go." To do that, you've got to have a Mary Poppins bag full of stuff.
Leanne: [laughs] What's in your Mary Poppins bag?
Cherelle: My partner is fascinated when I pack to go and facilitate because he says, "You've been doing this for so many years and you still take too much stuff every time. You take stuff you don't use." I say, "Yes, because you don't know what's going to happen in the road." I always take extra icebreakers in addition to the ones I've planned because I often get in the room and go, "You know what? This room’s a bit more high energy than I anticipated." Or, "This one's a bit lower energy than I thought or a bit more resistant than I expected." I might use a different icebreaker.
I always take more paper, more pens, more blue tack, more everything that you think you're going to need because the walls that you thought you could put paper up on, you can and you've got to be able to adapt if you want people up and moving around. I always take some other energizers. I have a favourite go-to which is a beach ball and it has questions on permanent marker on the beach ball. You throw the beach ball around the room and people catch it and wherever their hands land it's a question and they read the question and they give the answer. It’s a bit of fun and energy. There are a few things that are in my Mary Poppins bag.
Leanne: That is so cool. I know you're a bit of inventor. Are you going to paint in your beach ball?
Cherelle: [laughs] Yes, I actually have a secret desire to make a range of facilitator products because-- Not so secret now, I'm saying it on the podcast.
[laughter]
Cherelle: There is a lack of Mary Poppins bags, I guess. When you're starting out, it takes a long time to gather these tools. I've gathered them just from my own learning I guess, but also watching other facilitators and I'm always fascinated, "What have they got in there?" "What’s their go-to tool?" For first-time facilitators, ask away. When you're in a workshop, ask what they've got in their kit and that's a good way to learn.
Leanne: Yes, I was actually thinking of a little segment on the show, a bit of an aside was to ask facilitators what they do pack in their training toolkit and then just linking that as part of a packing list on the website or something. I know it's all right, you're so true and even like the pens that facilitators use. I've seen those Mr. Sketch, the free pens that people-- I don't know, they seem to last forever. They smell good. They’re colorful. I've seen that a lot around Brisbane.
Cherelle: Yes, you see people like Adam Fraser on his YouTube, he’s got those giant, giant outline pens that are just huge. When he just wants to write one word it's this big fat text and it looks fabulous. I've seen them in office work.
Leanne: We'll link to those in the show notes. It's fun, creating a safe environment, you can do all these sort of things and prepare really well and then sometime in the course of your workshop, someone can say something that can derail or you have a bit of an impact which isn't so positive. How do you bring it back to that safe environment and creating a positive atmosphere when something like that happens?
Cherelle: Yes, I think that is the number one nightmare of all facilitators. [laughs] I've watched some more experienced facilitators than me that have 40 years experience under their belts struggle with that. I would just say to first-time facilitators, "It's not easy for anyone to deal with when you've got one person in the group that is resisting or is been quite negative." I've also had the ones that like to clown around and so they never do the instructions that you are asking them to do and then they go around disrupting everybody else. Or the person that constantly is on their mobile phone even though the ground rules have been set that we'll put our phones in our bag.
You do get these kinds of behaviors. You also get the behaviors of people that have been sent to the workshop and that's always challenging. They don't want to be there from the get-go. A couple of things that I do is absolutely make sure you've got the ground rules in place first, at the beginning of the day. Then, if you got those, you will need those because say the ground rule says something like, "We listen without interrupting", and you've got someone that's always interrupting, then you need to say, "Look, I'm noticing that we aren't sticking to the ground rule we'd set earlier today about listening without interrupting. We need to come back to that and be mindful of that and make sure that we are doing that to get the best out of the day."
When it happens again, I would say, "Hey Jake, when you're interrupting Sally like that, we're not sticking to the ground rules. You need to give it--" Actually, have to name it. You don't want to as a facilitator, especially in a larger group setting, you don't want to have to say, "Hey Jake, that's not what's in line with the--" If you've done all the other-- You've done the grounds rules, you’re reminded the group as a whole and then it's still happening, you're left with no option.
The other thing I do that can be effective is go to the break. Take a five-minute stretch break and pull that person aside and say, "Look, Jake, when you're interrupting the group, when you're interrupting Sally, it's not allowing us to get the best out of the day. What’s going on for you that you feel the need to do that? What could I do differently as a facilitator to help you be heard?" Have that conversation with him and hopefully, he's not just doing it because he loves running amok. Hopefully, that brings him around.
On the flip side, out of the last 10 years of facilitating, I probably only had that happen twice where it's been that bad that I've had to even name it in the group or I've had to pull the person aside. First-time facilitators don't panic, it's not going to happen in every group. [laughs]
Leanne: I find it interesting that you said facilitators of 40 years still experience and you can sometimes trip and stumble, a lot of preparations involved in a workshop, it can be stressful. Why do you enjoy training other people?
Cherelle: I love it because I like to take complex stuff and make it simple and have people go, "Oh yes, that makes sense. Now we could do that." I like creating that energy that you can create as a facilitator and move people from, "I don't think I can do this", "This is so hard and complex", "We don't know what to do next", to the end of the day or the end of the two hours going, "Oh wow, we've got a solution. I never expected that. We’ve got an idea of how to move forward." If it's team building, they come in and they're quite separate and there's a few people that don't like each other and they're thinking the day is going to be rubbish. Then they come out the other end going, "Oh, that was really actually quite productive. Now, I understand so much better what we need to do next."
That's probably why my consultancy is called LIFT. I like that energy. I also like transferable learning. I like people to get outcomes that they can they can use. I also think back to when I was a little kid and I've got three sisters and we always played schools in our school holidays, we never wanted to be at school but in our school holidays, we played schools. I was always the teacher. [chuckles] I always wanted to be the one writing on the board. I think you haven't made an unnatural path towards that as well.
Leanne: Yes, they actually say when people are looking at, I guess, career advice they get you to reflect on what activities and things you were doing back when you were a kid, what kind of skills. There's a natural-- That’s just exactly, so being a teacher in school and now you're actually doing it for your job. That's very straight life. Now, reading your bio, you're accredited in a number of profiling tools including DiSC, MBTI, and Belbin. I know speaking to different facilitators, they all have the one that they really like the most. What's your favourite tool and why?
Cherelle: I love Belbin because it is a team based profile. Myers-Briggs is personality. I use that a lot in one-to-one coaching and leadership development. It tells you introvert/extrovert, how you think and process information. I like the DiSC because it's simpler and for some clients, it's cheaper as well. There’s a price factor. Myers-Briggs has 160 plus questions. DiSC has only got about 30 and Belbin has 10. 10 is very quick to do. It's the cost competitive. Mostly, it's about team roles.
Belbin is the only one that really does team roles. It's not your personality, it’s about your behaviors in a team. Whether you're leading a team or working in a team at some point you need to know your team role. It’s very appreciative inquiry based. It’s very much around your strengths and what you do well and what you bring to the team. I find it's a very non-threatening profile to use.
I've been using it since 2003. I'm probably the most experienced person in WA and probably in the top five in Australia because I've done about 1,500 profiles. It just freaks me out every time how accurate it is. Even now after doing so many profiles, people sit in front of me and go, "Wow, I answered 10 questions and this is like really relevant to me in a team."
It fits in as a facilitator well because you are working the team. Knowing their profiles means you know who's in the room from a behavioral point of view.
Leanne: Does your Belbin profile change depending on the team or work environment you're in or does it stay consistent?
Cherelle: It doesn't. I guess I can only answer from my experience, it doesn't really change over time unless you change your job significantly. I remember probably about eight years ago, I had a nurse manager and his Belbin profile strength was around shaping, driving change, being quite dynamic and energetic. That’s what he did well and then he changed jobs for a three-month period and had to do an audit on the health service which was all about data and measurement.
Interestingly, in that same period, he did his Belbin again because he'd joined another team. His Belbin top score was no longer the shape and drive and dynamic one, it was around completer-finisher which is all around deadlines and quantity and measurement. It’s not his natural preference and the three months just exhausted him because it's not his-- I actually had proof, scientific proof that it does change if you change your job significantly. He then went back to his normal job and was much happier. I think that's from my experience the only time it does change.
Often, if you're going to have a baby or you've just had a major life shift then your Belbin will go a little bit more even spread because you haven't used a lot of different skills in those transition times. Generally, the top three scores might shift place, one, two and three, but they stay as your top three.
Leanne: You mentioned before that you've got a bit of creativity in you, Cherelle. I'd love to hear, I only heard about this recently, you developed a new keynote, is it a workshop or a speech?
Cherelle: Well, that's a good question. It’s called an interactive keynote because I didn't want to become a keynote speaker that just stands on the stage and talks at people. It’s a combo.
Leanne: Yes, I love the title, the Courage to Create. Can you tell us what it's about?
Cherelle: It's got three elements and it's really bringing together my inventive part of my life which is Tricky Treats and it's an automatic toy and treat dispenser for dogs and I've been working on that for about five years. It brings that and my LIFT consultancy training and facilitating together in a space where I talk about the importance of diverse thinking, agile thinking is all the rage at the moment, people are talking about it a lot. Really what it means is getting people in the room and appreciating their diversity.
The interactive keynote for the Courage to Create has a first part around diverse thinking and how important it is that we appreciate each other's thought. We do an activity around that. People look at the same thing and then see it quite differently. The second part of it is a bit more serious. We talk about failure. Danner and Coopersmith have written a great book called The Other F Word. It’s on failure and they have a great quote in there that says, "Failure is the asset in your company that you've already paid for." If you've already paid for it, why wouldn't you examine it and use it? We tend to not do that.
We tend to push it to the side because we're embarrassed and then move on with the next idea. The second part of the interactive keynote talks about failure and how we manage that and obviously how we manage the emotions around that which are going to be embarrassment and possibly shame and how we rise up from that. We do an activity that’s fun in that quite serious bit of the keynote to talk about how we bounce back from failure. Then, we finish off with some Belbin team roles which is, are you a task person? Or are you a thinking person? Or are you a harmony people person?
People get to stand in their area and look at the other different people in the room and how similar or different we are. I have a bit of fun talking to them about how you see the world differently to the other people across the other side of the room.
Leanne: Wow, how did you actually decide to put this together and then also make the decision on what you include and what-- I guess more important question, is what you don't include?
Cherelle: Yes, hours and hours of pulling my hair out. It’s really hard to distill it down specially-- I'm looking at 25 years of knowledge, how do I get that into a one-hour keynote that's fun, that's not boring death by PowerPoint? It took a long time. I'd say it took over two weeks of intensive thinking and also other people giving me their feedback. People that could then share-- I shared my keynote with them and they'd go, "Oh, yes that doesn't really make sense." Or, "I'm going to be bored there." Really help asking people to give you feedback as being important and they see different parts of the keynote as important to them.
I'm putting it out there for other people not for me. I've done that to refine it all the time. I guess the other thing that drove me to those three areas and they are the three areas that my clients use over and over again so the diversity of views, knowing your team profile strengths and knowing how to navigate failure seem to be the common themes over the last five years that have come up more and more. Certainly in my business with Tricky Treats and having an invention, having a crazy idea and then taking it to commercial reality, they are the three things that I really encountered the most as well.
Leanne: Yes, having that side hustle sounds like you had a couple different side hustles going. How are you managing to juggle all of them and still deal with your clients?
Cherelle: [laughs] A lot of bowls fall on the floor regularly but I'm quite good at scooping them up. Well, you don't sleep. Sleep is a bit of a waste of time.
[laughter]
Cherelle: Although I watched a program last night that said sleep is essential for reconfirming our memories and creating the myelin around their brain better. I better get some more sleep. I guess time management is always an issue. Probably the simplest answer is to segment my day. I try and segment. Morning, I'm doing inventive work or I'm talking to potential buyers and things like that. The afternoon, I'm working on my keynote for a client next week. It does come down to planning.
I do have a virtual assistant who helps me and keeps me on track and manages my diary. I confess to her once a week all the things I haven't done [chuckles] that I need to now do for next week.
Leanne: You mentioned a few resources and really great videos to watch including the Adam Fraser one. Are there any other books or resources that you would recommend to first-time facilitators?
Cherelle: Yes, I would definitely say find a mentor because that's probably where I've learnt the most than from books. I'm going to say something that other people might have a completely different opinion on but there's not a lot of great books on facilitation. I would read some stuff around group dynamics. There’s lots of good books on group dynamics and the more you understand group dynamics, the better you are as a facilitator.
Anything written by-- I think his name is Roger Schwarz . Yes, Roger Schwarz, he's written Smart Leader, Smart Teens. Patrick Lencioni if you're more Italian, has written great books on team development and the five functions or dysfunctions of a team. As far as pure facilitation books go, Dale Hunter has written a couple, The Art of Facilitation and The Zen of Groups. I've found parts of those books quite good. There’s a Perth girl called Iwona Polowy. I always mispronounce her surname, sorry Iwona, she’s written Ordinary Meetings Don't Interest Me That Much. Her book is basically a selection of other facilitators, very experienced facilitators sharing their thoughts and of course her journey as well. They'd be my burst of thoughts.
Leanne: Finally, I want to talk a bit about your invention, Tricky Treats. If you'd like to share a bit more about your journey with that with the audience. Also, just explain have there been any, in terms of crossover in the skills that you've learnt by building up this business and an invention that you've brought into the world of facilitation? Are there any parallels?
Cherelle: Yes, there are huge parallels that I didn't anticipate. I thought I had two separate businesses that had nothing in common with each other. Particularly, now I'm doing my keynote on the Courage to Create. It’s so obvious that the universe has been leading me in this path. I can stand up and talk with authenticity about the courage to create like needing to find the courage. There's certainly days where I want to put the dinner over my head and it's just a bit hard.
I think too that the natural journey of an invention requires you to fail quite a lot and you have to get good at bouncing not just back but forwards from the failure. I can talk quite emotionally in a good way about what that means and what that means to put yourself out there and have people say, "Oh, that's a rubbish idea", or "That's a good idea" or whatever it might be. I think too that my facilitation skills have helped me in my invention business because often I'm sitting in a room talking to business people, retailers, I don't know anything about their world, but I have good questions.
Being a facilitator gives you good, powerful questions that you can ask to learn more. That's fed backwards into Tricky Treats. I think overall too I talk a lot about agility in my facilitation work, and I want my teams in the room to be agile. Really understanding what that means and being able to not hold on to a thought or an idea so tightly that you're not able to listen to someone else's view is key.
Leanne: Cherelle, I'm so excited for you. We're talking about the idea of Tricky Treats when it was in its infancy in Broome a few years ago. I remember at the Mangrove hotel you told me about your idea and I was instantly excited because I thought of my two dogs at home getting bored, digging up the garden. It's really exciting to hear how you've progressed and how it's benefited both the invention itself plus your facilitation as well. Finally, where can people find you?
Cherelle: That's a good question because I'm just about to update the website. Our website is liftps.com and probably they could just send me an email, I'm happy to respond to any questions or support any of those new facilitators that might be listening, cherelle@liftps.com they could reach me there.
Leanne: Awesome. We'll link to that in the show notes as well. Cherelle, it's been so great catching up. I love hearing all of your updates every couple of months about the business. Well done and thanks again for sharing your advice for first time facilitators.
Cherelle: Good, I hope it was helpful. It's been my pleasure to work with you again. Who knew our lives would cross in this way?
Leanne: [laughs] Who knew. Thanks again, Cherelle.
Episode 9: The three minute rule of group facilitation with Cherelle Witney
In this First Time Facilitator podcast episode, facilitator, entrepreneur and inventor Cherelle Witney shares how a diverse career spanning legal, health and tourism has helped her confidently deliver workshops to thousands of participants.
In this First Time Facilitator podcast episode, facilitator, entrepreneur and inventor Cherelle Witney shares how a diverse career spanning legal, health and tourism has helped her confidently deliver workshops to thousands of participants.
In this episode you’ll learn:
How to create a safe environment (hint: It’s all about being yourself)
Why you only have three minutes to create a trusting space with your group
Why it’s important to set ground rules for the workshop
Why you need a Mary Poppins bag full of stuff
The #1 nightmare of all facilitators (and how to manage it)
About our guest
Cherelle Witney is the Founder of LIFT Performance Solutions, Leadership trainer and coach.
She believes that being curious to learn and willing to welcome shared learning keeps us positively energised & connected throughout our work and our life. Her aim is to be a facilitator that inspires her participants with diverse real experience & insights that makes learning practical and fun!
On the Belbin profile she’s a Specialist, Plant, Shaper which means she likes detail, to be up to date with facts, theories and practices. loves ideas, innovative thinking and “what if….” questions.
Over the last 18+ years, her career has included work as a senior manager & leader, internal trainer/facilitator and professional coach in a variety of private and public organisations with 7 years in public health and 6 years in law.
Her facilitation work uses a variety of tools from brainstorming to framing to open space and journey maps to assist strategic planning processes, creation of organisational learning & development plans, effective process improvement pathways and change engagement strategies in organisations of 12 to 1200 people.
Resources
Books:
The Other "F" Word: How Smart Leaders, Teams, and Entrepreneurs Put Failure to Work
Smart Leaders, Smarter Teams: How You and Your Team Get Unstuck to Get Results
Ordinary Meetings DON’T Interest Me!: What is Facilitation? (Creative Group Leadership Book 1)
Transcript
Read the full First Time Facilitator transcript with Cherelle Witney
Episode 8: Storytelling works! (Because no one's ever asked to see a Powerpoint presentation twice)
In this First Time Facilitator episode, internationally bestselling author Matthew Dicks shares why storytelling so important, and how telling stories is not simply sharing a series of events; it’s the manipulation of emotions.
In this First Time Facilitator episode, internationally bestselling author Matthew Dicks shares why storytelling so important, and how telling stories is not simply sharing a series of events; it’s the manipulation of emotions.
It’s a skill that can be taught and he shares some of the techniques he uses to engage his audience, whether they're 10 year old kids, or politicians.
In this episode you’ll learn:
What a story is (and what it isn’t)
The details you should leave in your story and more importantly; the details you can leave out
How you can become more memorable by sharing things that are vulnerable, amusing or embarrassing
That it’s important to assume that no one wants to listen to anything you have to say
How to start collecting your own stories by reflecting on everyday moments
About our guest
Matthew Dicks is the internationally bestselling author of the novels Memoirs of an Imaginary Friend, Something Missing, Unexpectedly, Milo, The Perfect Comeback of Caroline Jacobs, and the upcoming Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life through the Power of Storytelling. His novels have been translated into more than 25 languages worldwide.
When not hunched over a computer screen, Matthew fills his days as an elementary school teacher, a storyteller, a speaking coach, a blogger, a wedding DJ, a minister, a life coach, and a Lord of Sealand.
Matthew is a 35-time Moth StorySLAM champion and 5-time GrandSLAM champion. He has also told stories for This American Life, TED, The Colin McEnroe Show, The Story Collider, The Liar Show, Literary Death Match, The Mouth, and many others.Heis also the co-founder and creative director of Speak Up, a Hartford-based storytelling organization that produces shows throughout New England.Matthew is the creator and co-host of Boy vs. Girl, a podcast about gender and gender stereotypes.
Resources
Grab his new book! Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life through the Power of Storytelling
Video: Life lessons learned while pole vaulting told by Matthew Dicks
Transcript
Read the full First Time Facilitator transcript with Matthew Dicks.
Thoughts on the episode? Share your comments below!
First Time Facilitator podcast transcript with Matthew Dicks (Episode 8)
Storytelling works! (Because no one's ever asked to see a Powerpoint presentation twice)
Leanne: I’d like to introduce today’s guest. He fills his days as a school teacher, storyteller, speaking coach, blogger, podcaster, a wedding DJ, minister-life coach, and a rock opera author. His upcoming book, Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life Through the Power of Storytelling, is his first non-fiction title. His other novels have been translated into 25 languages worldwide. Plus, he's a 35-time Moth StorySLAM champion and 5-time GrandSLAM champion. Welcome to the show, Matthew Dicks.
Matthew Dicks: Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.
Leanne: It's great to have you here. I'm like, look, what a crazy and full repertoire of things that you do. You must get that comment a lot.
Matthew Dicks: I do. My wife is not a huge fan of that list.
[laughter]
Leanne: I hopped into YouTube last night to watch some of your videos. The first one was the Moth story about you as a pole vaulter in high school. I know there's--
Matthew Dicks: That was the first story I ever told.
Leanne: I can't believe that was your first one. You looked so seasoned. My husband and I were laughing out loud, watching that.
Matthew Dicks: Thank you.
Leanne: Well done. Switched over to your TEDx talk about making decisions based on what your hundred-year-old self would say, and I got to say there were a few teary moments watching that. I think your video hit home for me.
Matthew Dicks: I'm so glad. Thank you.
Leanne: I shared it on Facebook straight away. I've got to ask, how did you become so good at telling stories?
Matthew Dicks: I used to say that I was just fortunate that I found this thing that I was able to do, and then my wife told me, "You're an idiot. It wasn't because of that." What it turns out to be is that I've been sort of prepping for storytelling for a very long time through a bunch of things. The DJ-ing was great because for 20 years, I learned to speak extemporaneously in front of large groups of people. I was comfortable in front of a crowd the first time I took the stage, and that helped a lot.
I'm a novelist, so I'm accustomed to sort of the shape that stories should take. I never really understood that that would play a role until I started working with people on their stories, and I realized how people just don't really have that fundamental understanding all the time.
I've been blogging since 2006. I've discovered through the process of blogging that the more I reveal about myself, the more vulnerable I'm willing to be, the more I'm willing to tell on myself about the terrible things I may do on a daily basis, the more attention I would get from my audience. I think those things sort of combined that night at The Moth when I decided to tell my first story, the idea that I was comfortable in front of people and I understood that they wanted me to be honest and as vulnerable as possible.
Leanne: What was the first vulnerable thing that you did reveal to people? Was it that story, the part that you're this mediocre athlete at high school? Was that an embarrassing thing to share with the world?
Matthew Dicks: I guess the part of that story that I'm really trying to express that I think people feel but never say is the moment where you occasionally root against your teammates because you want to be perceived as the best person on the team. That's something that I think a lot of people feel but would rarely speak aloud. That was what I was trying to go for that night when I was telling that story.
Leanne: Back to storytelling. I know this from my experiences. There's [sic] some people that I've-- I've talked to some friends, and they're just natural at storytelling. They break into telling at something that happened in their holiday. It's really funny, and it seems effortless. There's also, on the other end of the spectrum, some people that can tell you a story, and with the first two sentences, you're switching off. Do you think it's something that's natural, or is it something, a skill, that you can learn, and is it an easy or difficult skill to appreciate?
Matthew Dicks: Well, I teach it a lot, so I have to believe that it can be learned. I've been teaching it now for about five years. I have taken people who are truly terrible at telling a story, got them on a stage in a very short period of time, and had them perform really brilliantly, so I do believe that can be taught. I do believe it can be learned. I think a lot of is just the ability to listen to stories. I think the people who are natural storytellers, the ones that don't need to work with me, they're just good listeners. They've picked up this craft along the way that they're not even aware that they picked up. Others just need some help understanding how a story works, really what is a story, and what isn't a story because that's often half the battle.
Leanne: How do you define what a story is, then?
Matthew Dicks: I always say that a story is not a series of events. Someone may come to you and say, "Let me tell you about my vacation." No one's really ever wanted to hear the next sentence of that story because what they're really saying is "I'd like to run through the itinerary of my vacation with you so I can relive it again. I'll insert good meals along the way." That's not something that's going to move us.
For a story to really be a story, it needs to be something in your life that happened that caused some kind of change in you. I usually say are transformation or a realization. "I was this person, but now I'm this person." It can be a negative transformation. It could be, "I used to be a decent human being, and now I'm not." Something as simple as, "I used to think my mom was an idiot, and now I understand that everything my mom has ever told me was absolutely true. I really can't believe it." There has to be that arc, that journey from "I was one thing" to "Now, I'm another," which people tend not to understand. They tend to tell stories which are just series of things that happened to them, but in the end, they're fundamentally the same person. Those stories aren't memorable, and oftentimes, they're not very good to listen to.
Leanne: Is there a secret structure to telling these stories where you talk about the shift in behaviour or your thoughts around something?
Matthew Dicks: There's a lot to it. I say there's a lot of secrets, but the big secret I often tell people is that every story is about a five-second moment in our lives. It's really that moment of realization or transformation. I call it a five-second moment because I really believe it takes place over about the course of five seconds where you suddenly, for whatever reason, shift into a new person or shift into a new understanding.
Once I'm able to find one of those moments, the moment in the story we were talking about, the moment I realized I'm rooting against my teammate because I'm a selfish jerk who wants to be perceived as better than everybody else-- As soon as I find that moment, I know that's always going to be the end of my story because it's going to be the most important thing I say. If people would just do that, if they would just ask themselves what moment of realization or transformation can I talk about and make that the end of my story, they're going to be better off than most storytellers already.
Leanne: Why do you think it is important for people to share information using stories?
Matthew Dicks: I think it's the best way to share information. It's the most captivating way. I often say that I'm a fundamentally unlikable person who tells a good story, and I manage to get through life on that tree. I'm a horrible golfer. I am really the worst golfer of any golfer I've ever played with. Yet, I'm asked to play constantly, almost daily. The people who play golf with me know that when I hit the ball into the trees and we go looking for it, I'm going to entertain them on the way.
That ability to grab attention, and through a story, you can just get people to do a lot of things that they might not normally do or convince people to think a certain way that they might not normally think. I often say no one has ever asked to see a PowerPoint presentation a second time or say, "Wow, that graph was so amazing. I'd love to see it again." We'll watch the same movie that we have watched ten times, an 11th time if it randomly comes on the television one night because we love stories so much more than anything else.
Leanne: So true. In the work environment, you'd recommend instead of dolling up the PowerPoint/presentation with the corporate template, would you just recommend launching into a story about how your new idea will shift the organization, and would you make it personal? How do you start even mapping out what that story would look like when it comes to, say, in business?
Matthew Dicks: I always start with a story. I have to do presentations as a teacher, and I'm often doing presentations now with corporations and non-profits for storytelling. My first goal is to tell a story that's going to relate to the goal of the day, but also going to reveal something about me. I don't want to be a presenter that's forgettable because most presenters are. You'll go to a conference, and you'll hear some information, but you won't remember the person three days later, which means you haven't made a meaningful connection. If I can share something that is vulnerable, or amusing, or even embarrassing, I've now established myself as someone who is memorable, or entertaining, or someone who you just want to know a little bit more about. I'll always start with that. Eventually, I may work into a PowerPoint, or into a graph, or into that more traditional presentation style, but I always want to start with a story. I always want to connect with my audience so that they will believe the things that I am saying.
Leanne: That's very authentic as well. Like you said, it does create that personal connection. It's so different to what everyone else is doing because most people, I guess, they expect to go into a board meeting, for example, switch on the computer and fire it up, and that's the way it goes. I guess, by using that story, you're automatically hooking them in.
Matthew Dicks: Yes. If you watch any of my TED talks, actually, I always open with a story. The story is going to inform what I want to talk about after the story, but I want that story to be something that causes people to feel connected to me and relate to the content I want to present. I'll often end the TED talk with either another story or I will finish off that first story. We begin with story we end with story. People feel entertained and fall. They feel moved and connected with me and then the content that I sandwiched in the middle, manages to get in there, sort of sneaky. They don't even notice it's happening.
Leanne: Yes, you're right. Because when I put on your second video last night, my husband was like, "Let's play something else." But then, I think in the first minute, you've hooked him in and he was there watching it for 15 minutes which was awesome. [crosstalk] Thank you. [laughs] I'd love to hear about the level of detail that you go in. Sometimes when you're describing an event, you really describe it quite evocatively and outline like the greasy tiled floor that you were lying on at McDonald's. I guess, in my experience hearing stories, some people give too much details, some people not enough. Where's the fine line in providing detail?
Matthew Dicks: I always think it's not how much, but where it should be and where it shouldn't be. There are moments, like the moments you've spoken about when I'm in a robbery in the back of a restaurant and there's a gun to my head. I want you to be on the floor with me and I want you to feel the grease in the barrel of the gun. I want you to see and smell everything because it's such a unique situation and it's the most important moment in that story. I want you there with me.
Quite often, I will tell people don't include any details. If I'm telling a story about-- I'm working on a story right now about my grandmother and I open with her in the garden. I will just say the word garden because it's irrelevant what type of garden it is. If I just say garden, you just automatically fill in a garden of your choice. You end up doing a lot of work for me, without me wasting any words, without even knowing it.
If I say the word garden to you, you automatically choose the season, you automatically choose the weather on that day, you choose what is in that garden, and as long as it's not pertinent to the story, those details, I want you to do the work for me. It will also create a landscape that you are more familiar with. So that, when you put my grandmother in your garden, you feel like you're a little bit at home because it's a sense of like, "I understand what that garden is." Even if the garden she happens to be in is full of corn and carrots and you put her in a flower garden, that's fine. I love the fact that you've created the garden that you are most comfortable with.
It's all a matter of choosing which moments need to be described and which moments can be let go. I think people either describe everything or they don't describe anything and they don't find that moment where, "No, slow it down here and give us the detail that we need because now we've hit a critical moment." Or a moment that people really can't visualize without words.
Leanne: Let's talk about storytelling and facilitation and particularly, in workshops. Sometimes, I definitely think it's a useful tool to explain whatever you're trying to get through to your audience. With your stories, do you actually have a bucket of stories that you have which you can lean on and go, "This one's a great one to use when I want to explain leadership. This one is about integrity." Do you have an Excel spreadsheet or how do you store that information? [chuckles]
Matthew Dicks: I do have an Excel spreadsheet. It's fairly insane. It's a crazy spreadsheet. It has a dozen of tabs and it really is insane. What happens is, if you build up enough stories, that's what I encourage people to do is keep telling stories and keep crafting them, eventually, when I am asked to speak on a topic, it is never relevant what that topic is because I will always have a story for it.
I had to do a talk in a human trafficking conference one time. They asked me to close out the conference with an inspirational story related to human trafficking. The conference organizer called me a couple of days before and she said, "Have you researched human trafficking?" I said, "Absolutely not. They've just spent three days hearing about human trafficking. I'm going to tell you a story and then relate it to the importance of battling human trafficking." She was very worried about how that talk was going to go.
I told a personal story about my life and how I failed to act quickly when I could have helped the student. I related that back to the importance of when it comes to things like human trafficking, we can't allow politicians to say that, "Change takes place over time and big ships are slow to turn because these are human lives at stake and not making widgets." It really went well and it was completely different from anything else said in the conference. I'm just able to do that with every topic now because I have 150 stories that I've told on stages over the years and I can apply any one of them to any topic whatsoever.
The trick is to be a storyteller with a large amount of content and then the topics are irrelevant because you can always match what you have to what they need.
Leanne: Do you collect those stories in real time, like you just, "Wow, that's interesting.", and you get out your phone and go into Evernote? Or, is it something at the end of the day? What's your process?
Matthew Dicks: I actually have a TED talk called Homework for Life that you can go and get a lot of detail on it. What I do essentially is at the end of every day, I sit down with my spreadsheet and I ask myself, "What is the most story-worthy moment of my day?" If I had to tell a story about something that happened today, even if that moment is fairly benign and irrelevant, I still write it down. I put it down in just a few sentences in a spreadsheet. I don't make it so on a risk that I won't continue to do it day after day.
My goal was to get maybe a story every couple of months to add to my lists of stories. But what happened over time is really remarkable. I've developed this lense for storytelling. Such that, I can see stories where other people don't. My wife says, "Matt can turn anything into a story." And that's not really true. My friend tells me, "Matt can pick up a rock and make it into a story, The Process of the Rock." That's not true either. What I try to explain to them is, I just see stories where you don't because I've developed this lense overtime by continually asking myself this question. I've discovered that the smallest moments in our lives make the best stories.
Even though I've died twice and been brought back by CPR. You know about my robbery. I've been homeless for a period in my life and arrested and tried for a crime I didn't commit. All of those things aren't my best stories. Really, my best stories are tiny little moments that I experience and then I see because of this process that I've been engaged in for the last three or four years.
Leanne: Do you think those little stories are good because they're probably more relatable? Because I haven't had two near death experiences-
Matthew Dicks: [laughs]
Leanne: Do you think that's why they are so good, those little ones?
Matthew Dicks: Exactly, yes. Exactly. When I tell my near death experiences and I've told those stories, you can see them on the internet, I always have to find the tiny, little moment in the big story, so that I can connect with my audience.
When I was 17, I was in a car accident. I went through the windshield, died on the side of the road, but the fact that I die on the side of the road and get brought back to life is almost irrelevant to the story. It's not the point of the story. The point of the story happens later on in the emergency room when my parents fail to show up. They go to check on the car before they come to check on me when they hear I'm in a stable condition. But my friends show up. My 16, and 17 and 18-year-old friends show up in the emergency room, unexpectedly. They fill in for my family and really become my family until I meet my wife.
That is something people can connect to you. You can't connect to me going through a windshield, but you can connect to the idea that parents sometimes let us down. Or, that friends sometimes pick us up, when we feel alone at points in our lives when we really shouldn't feel alone. You find the little moments in the big ones, but the easiest stories to tell are just, start with the little ones, then you don't have to play with them.
Leanne: It's a pretty powerful skill you have, in terms of the way that you can transition emotion. Last night, I was saying within five minutes, we were laughing and we watched the second video and it was like, "Whoa."
[laughter]
How do you feel that having that kind of responsibility?
Matthew Dicks: It's a trick of storytelling, really. My favorite story and the ones my wife likes the best are the ones that are, laugh, laugh, laugh, cry. I get you laughing at the beginning of the story and not realizing the horror that is to come. I always say it's better to make people laugh before they cry because it hurts more that way. [laughs] Part of storytelling is the manipulation of emotion because the ultimate goal is, I want you to feel the same way I felt, or as close to it as possible. So, if I'm surprised in my real life, I want my audience to experience that similar surprise as I tell the story.
I'm constantly asking myself, "How do I want my audience to feel at this moment?" So, if my story is very heavy at the end, I want to balance it with humor at the beginning if I can. It's just that manipulation of emotion that a storyteller inevitably does, in a way that it's [unintelligible 00:18:44], but it really is the satisfying way that people want to hear stories.
Leanne: Cool. Let's talk about your transition. You're doing a lot of keynotes, speaking, presenting and then you're running workshops, do you think there's similar skill-set that you brought over. I know you're a teacher as well, so you've got that as a background. Obviously, teaching has really helped you, having the storytelling as well. How have you used those skills, in terms of getting engagement in workshops?
Matthew Dicks: I teach fifth grade. I teach ten-year-olds and I've been teaching for 20 years. I often say they're the worst audience in the world. I've really learned that you have to engage your audience. I so often, I am in workshops in professional development or listening to speeches, and I'm astounded that the speaker doesn't attempt to do something entertaining or different. I think so often we assume that adults are willingly engaged in what we are about to present. Like your husband, actually.
When I do my TED Talk, I don't assume that the person who is even chosen to listen to it, wants to listen to it. So, I'm always thinking about, when I'm beginning a workshop, when I'm beginning a keynote, I assume that no one wants to listen to anything I have to say. The first thing I have to do is hook them. I have to find a way to get them to care about me and care about what I'm saying, and I just see so many people assume the opposite that everyone wants to hear them, so they have to make no effort to be entertaining and engaging in the beginning. Kevin Smith, the comedian wrote a book, wrote a biography and then he says that speakers have an obligation to be entertaining regardless of their topic every time they take the stage, and I believe that and I believe you have to be entertaining initially and not assume that people want to hear anything you have to say.
Leanne: That's amazing and how do we create a movement, I completely agree with you as well, but it just seems like, we're being overwhelmed with people that do operate off that assumption. How do we change this? I know you're starting out by writing a book about it, you created these videos, we really need to start just the revolution somehow.
Matthew Dicks: Part of it is just rejecting what people are doing you know, if you're not entertaining I just reject your content I reject what you have to say, part of it is giving feedback as well, it's so often and when I'm in a professional development situation, and I've asked to give feedback at the end of it. I believe that there's this desire to be kind to the person who took the stage because they were brave enough to take the stage and so people avoid being honest with a speaker or a presenter about what they've actually done they just think, "Well, they were kind enough to come here, we have to be nice enough to say something nice".
And I think be honest in our feedback and if they don't ask for feedback, they don't solicit it, we have to be willing to send an email the next day saying, "Hey here's a couple things you should think about", until these people understand that we are not engaged in their material, they will just continue to do what they're doing.
Leanne: Yes, you're right, no one's really brave enough to tell them, a little bit scared. That's really good advice I think we'll link to your videos, that could even be away, so providing feedback to someone, "Hey, nice attempt yesterday, maybe you should watch this video and get some tips".
Matthew Dicks: Yes, I had a politician recently, a guy I know pretty well he's trying to get a program cut in our school system and it was a program that may be needed to be cut, they were trying to save some money and he said he did a year's worth of data collection presented a beautiful PowerPoint with lots of charts, lots of evidence that showed we should cut this program and move the money somewhere else. Then he said one mother stood up and described how the program saved her son's life and he said, "I always lose to the anecdote."
I told him you took a knife to a gunfight, you thought that a PowerPoint was going to change the hearts and minds of people when a mother with a child is gonna change the hearts and minds of people. So I'm working with politicians now, telling them you have to tell a story like nobody cares about your facts and figures that you have to be a personality who is engaging and who tells a story. I think starting to understand that to a great degree.
Leanne: Yes, I think so too. So in terms of your workshops, they're engaging, interactive and then the participant walks out and leaves the workshop, what is the best way to embed learning, do you think? Following a workshop when someone leaves that environment and just goes back, back to their day to day, how do you make sure that something has changed?
Matthew Dicks: Well, hopefully, they can buy my book and that will help a little now, but what are the things I do is I call it homework for life, the idea that you're going to look for stories every day. I say for life because I really do mean that that if you're going to start doing this, you'll do it for the rest of your life. I believe that when I teach my goal is to take a large and complex process like storytelling and break it down into the smallest possible parts. So that even if you spend eight hours in a workshop with me and you pick up just five small things that you can begin doing immediately, that are easy to implement and can be repeated over and over again, you'll begin doing that and you'll notice the changes in yourself as a storyteller. Then you're going to be more likely to maybe come watch one of my videos, or come to one of my advanced workshops to learn even more or to pick up my book now and read more about it.
I think that so often it when I'm in a workshop nobody is looking to sort of break things down into tiny concrete parts and maybe because I'm elementary school teacher for 20 years, that's what I understand about curriculum. So I really do try to teach in the smallest possible terms and I scale it so that the first things I say are always going to be the most important. As we get through the day I'm going to become more and more nuanced and the things that I'm teaching are going to be less important, although still important. So that when I have them at their maximum attention and maximum energy I'm teaching the most important things and truly things that are going to be so simple that they can go home and start doing immediately.
So don't teach big things, just like in storytelling we're looking for five second moments to tell a story, I'm looking for tiny bits that kit that people can use.
Leanne: Yes, great so let's talk about your book. It's coming out in June, I've already pre-ordered my version off Amazon. So you've written novels this is your first non-fiction book, what made you decide to pick up the pen and write something and share this experience with the world?
Matthew Dicks: Well, I did workshops for about four years and over the course of those workshops actually started grudgingly, people kept asking me to do it and I said no, and eventually I agreed to do one and done that's what I said and I fell in love with the teaching of storytelling. But over the course of that time, I really began to refine what I was doing so if you had taken a workshop with me in year one versus now, it would be entirely different. As I began to develop that curriculum in a way that people responded too positively and I saw them implementing really effectively, I realized that I can't reach everybody by having them come and join me on a Saturday for eight hours.
I started to get quite a bit of demand from around the world really from people who would either say, "Can you please fly out to LA and teach a workshop or do you have some material you can provide for us, a book and things like that". So my goal was to take the workshop that I teach really this weekend-long workshop that I teach in various places and turn that into a book. So if you can't join me for a weekend, if you can't make it to where I am and I can't make it to where you are, you'll have this to get you launched into storytelling.
It's not going to be the same, it's not going to be as interactive, you're not going to laugh, you know I try to make people laugh throughout all of my workshops. There are funny moments in the book but my goal is if you can't make it to me you can start with this and then maybe we can talk later on.
Leanne: How does the book work? Is it sort of like a sequence of you start with lesson one and then you build up over the course of it or is it just different tips and tricks you can start pretty much anywhere?
Matthew Dicks: No, I've designed it like my workshops so the beginning chapters are going to be more important than the later chapters, big fundamental, the big fundamental building blocks are in the first few chapters. I've also embedded lots of stories so that they can serve as models for what you're learning and I've crafted in a bit of memoir as well so that you can sort of watch my journey on storytelling as well.
I love Stephen King's book on writing. I think it's brilliant for writers and I love it because I learn a little bit about the writer's life in the process so my goal was to write that version for storytelling. It's going to be instructive but you're also going to go on my storytelling journey with me and you're going to meet some of the great storytellers that I've met along the way and learn some of their craft tips as well.
I'm hoping that even if you're not terribly interested in storytelling the book is going to be entertaining enough that you'll read it so even storytelling for dating has become really popular for me now. It's always guys who can't get a second date so they come to my workshops. So it's not just the idea that presenters or performers are going to be using this book, but really almost anyone can benefit from storytelling and I'm hoping the book is entertaining enough that it holds their attention and that they'll get through it.
Leanne: Yes, cool, just good opening that front cover and making the effort. Storytelling for dating, what's that workshop about? I have to ask.
Matthew Dicks: It's my regular workshop although I have a couple set up where it would be exclusively dating and we'd have like a meal and things. But essentially it's the idea that on your first date, it's your opportunity to communicate to people with whoever you're with. And so often, people don't know what to say they say the wrong thing all the time, they don't tell a good story or they're not willing to be vulnerable in front of someone. They brag, they just awful people on the first day, oftentimes they're the worst version of themselves because they're not being themselves.
So I teach them that tell the story about the embarrassing moment you had this week and tell it well. Someone once asked my wife, someone said, "Why did you first fall in love with Matt?" and I was so happy I was there because I sort of wanted to know what that answer was. I figured it would like, "Look at him, you know obviously I fell", but she said, "It's never been what I looked like". She told me about a night when we were still just friends and we were teaching together, and we went to a restaurant while we were waiting for a school talent show.
And it was the first time we ever really sat down together and had dinner and she asked me questions and if you ask me a question I'm always gonna tell you a story and she said,"That was the night I fell in love with him even though it took us another six months to get together". She said, "Listening to him tell stories was the moment I fell in love because I wanted to hear more, and I loved listening to what he had to say". So storytelling got me the best wife ever and I really believe it can at least get you the second date, I can't guarantee anything after that, now you're on your own. But if you can really speak well and represent yourself well on a first date, I think you can get a second date fairly easily.
Leanne: Yes, I think so, that's the beautiful story that your wife told as well.
Matthew Dicks: Yes, I know I just, I was mad at her actually when she told it because I was into like year three or four of workshops at that point, and I said, "You never told me that, that fits my personal narrative so well like I can brand that and she said, "I’m not really in the business of making sure your personal narrative is up to par."
Leanne: Just to watch out what she says around you sometimes a bit.
Matthew Dicks: Yes. I have to run things by her sometimes when the story involves her.
Leanne: Yes, I bet. Mathew, where can people find you and find your book?
Matthew Dicks: You can find me at Mathewdicks.com and you can find my book everywhere. It's on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, your local independent books store will have it. You can pre-order it or get it there when it comes out in June. There will be an audiobook, I’m actually going to be narrating the audio book. It will be my first time doing that. All of my novels are in audio but then they've been narrated by other people so that will be a first for me.
Leanne: Wonderful. I've heard that process is pretty interesting. It’s pretty intense, isn’t it?
Matthew Dicks: No, I haven’t done it yet but I have been told this is going to take at least three days, which sounds terrible to sit in a little booth for eight hours a day for three days reading words that I wrote a long time ago.
Leanne: We can’t wait to hear it. Mathew, it'd be great to have you down to sometime I’m sure after the release of this book. Maybe there'll be some opportunities there, but I just loved-- I can’t believe everything that you've done, but just watching all your videos and hearing from you as well today is just so exciting. I think this is really relevant to all our listeners and they will be championing this episode. I think it’s really a good one.
Matthew Dicks: I’m so glad, thanks so much.
Episode 7: Preparation: It's the security blanket for facilitators with Sue Johnston
In this First Time Facilitator episode, Sue Johnston from the Artemis Group shares practical facilitation advice from an introvert's perspective. She talks about how she ‘accidentally’ wound up as a facilitator after working on strategies to make weekly teleconferences more effective.Sue also emphasises the importance of preparation, and why it’s critical to revisit and communicate the purpose of a workshop.
In this First Time Facilitator episode, Sue Johnston from the Artemis Group shares practical facilitation advice from an introvert's perspective. She talks about how she ‘accidentally’ wound up as a facilitator after working on strategies to make weekly teleconferences more effective.Sue also emphasises the importance of preparation, and why it’s critical to revisit and communicate the purpose of a workshop.
In this episode you’ll learn
An introvert’s perspective on how it takes courage to step up in the room
Why it’s important to ‘call out’ behaviour in the moment and reinforce the purpose of your workshop
Why preparation is critical and how it works as a security blanket, particularly for first time facilitators.
Why you need to bring your authentic self to your facilitation
How to incorporate SCARF, a neuro-leaderhsip tool to engage your participants.
About our guest
Sue Johnston founded Artemis Group in 2000 as a vehicle for her professional services work with clients and entrepreneurial adventures.She’s a registered nurse, public sector advisor, health sector strategist, manager, entrepreneur, and now an advisor, facilitator and leadership coach.
Her clients include public sector organisations, private sector businesses, non-government organisations, and individual leaders and entrepreneurs.She’s a certified Daring Way Facilitator Candidate, a Results Based Coach with The Neuro Leadership Institute and a member of the International Coach Federation.
Resources
Sue's book recommendation: The secrets of facilitation by Michael Wilkinson
First Time Facilitator podcast transcript (Episode 7)
Preparation: It's the security blanket for facilitators with Sue Johnston
Leanne: Our guest today is very clear about what drives her in her work and it's all about making you better. This theme has played out through her career, previously as a nurse, and with her work in both the public and health sectors. Now she's an adviser, facilitator, and leadership coach, and her job title is both Executive Director and very useful person of the Artemis group. She is on the line, across the ditch in New Zealand. Welcome to the podcast Said Johnston.
Sue: Thank you so much Leanne. What a wonderful introduction.
Leanne: You're very welcome. I would sa,y every time I interview a guest on the show I hear that they've come from a range of backgrounds, and industries. Yours is in nursing and policy work, so I'm curious as to how you entered the world of facilitation.
Sue: I suspect I entered the world of facilitation in much the same way as other facilitators, and that's almost being pushed into it or it just happens. It's not like I said, "Right. I'm ready to be a facilitator now." I look back. You've made me reflect on -- So this is about 10 years ago now. In my reflection I can see that it started with things like running a project where we had a teleconference of people from around the country, and they needed someone to run the teleconference.
I don't know if you've ever experienced those sort of situations where there's lots of silence, and no one's really sure about how we managed the process of what we do, and I can see that that's where I cut my teeth if you like on facilitating. It was basically because I wanted an outcome from the meeting. I wanted a good outcome from the meeting, so I thought, "Well, I will lead this, and let's just get on with what the purpose of this, us getting together is." That's how it started really.
Leanne: Where did you look for sources or information on getting those outcomes on your teleconference? Yes, you're right, I have been on those phone calls where you put a question out, and no one really responds. I would love to know what strategies you have for that environment.
Sue: How did I learn? For a start, I learnt by experiencing both good and bad in person, and teleconference type meetings. I thought, "God. Why is the person doing it this way? Why don't they do it this way?" Then you say you see someone do it well. So you go, "That was good. I could try that it."
For a start, it was very much around just by example seeing how other people did it. At that stage I wasn't going, "Right. I'm going to be a facilitator." I wasn't naturally going to look for those sort of tools and techniques. I was still very much embedded in my analytical and my policy process environment. That was my key thing, and this was a sideline of how we get the work done. If that makes sense.
Leanne: That's interesting, because you mentioned in one of our earlier chats that you are a bit of an introvert, and so did going through this process give you some tools to be more confident to then make the step of running workshops in front of groups? How did you make that progress in small steps?
Sue: How I made the progress, I think it always takes whether you're an introvert or an extrovert a bit of courage to stand up, and say you're going to facilitate. For me I was very aware that I had to have my security blanket of preparation with me. I learnt how to -- If I was prepared, and I had thought through what I needed to be able to do in the meeting, that helped, and my key tool that I used every time I facilitated is that I spent time before the facilitation, quite a bit of time investing in understanding what my client needs in terms of the purpose of the day.
Once I'm clear with that I can manage whatever goes on in the meeting. There's a mental process for me. The more prepared I am, and the more I understand the purpose of the day, then the better it runs. I have to say in that process it's probably not a surprise to facilitators to discover that sometimes they want you to facilitate something, and they are not clear about the purpose of the day. They're not clear what they actually want. They just want something. By doing that process with them upfront, we get very clear about the purpose of the day, and I make it clear back in my proposal in my brief to them that this is the outcome you have said you want. This is the purpose of the day, and that's what I'll be aiming to give you. Is that right?
Once I have that, the introvert in me has a process, has a thing to put the whole day around, and that makes it so much easier for me.
Leanne: Yes. I have been in situations where I've been approached to run something, and they have said, "Hey, look, we just want a team day. We just want to get along better." What kind of questions do you ask to really dig down, and get to the root of the problem or what they're really wanting to achieve?
Sue: Very good question. If I see them in person, all the better, but if not, it's a phone call, and we start by saying -- I start with really big questions like, "Why do you want this day?" It's things like, "We've go to redo our strategy."Or, "We've got to get people together in a room, and we're a bit afraid of how they will, but they need to," or something along those lines. There is the types of questions I ask are, "Why do you want this day?", "Imagine it's the end of the day. What would make you think this day's being worth it?" I get them to imagine what it's like. I get them to imagine that, "Yes. This has been a good day." I say, "What has happened for you to feel that way?"
That's usually quite a good way of getting them to focus on what they want out of us, and therefore who they need in the room, and how much time we might need, and all those other sort of questions that we ask after that.
Leanne: I guess you get that information, and over the 10 years of being a facilitator, do you have a bucket of resources or are certain models that you always lean on? Do you have any favorites?
Sue: I do have favorites. If they're wanting to do strategy, et cetera, I might go to is a strength based approach. In fact, all my facilitation is based on strength based work. In this case it's using Appreciative Inquiry. It's a usual strategy day. We'll say, "Let's look at our strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats." In the strength based approach that becomes strengths, opportunities, aspirations, and results. What that does, it takes their brain to a much better place to do the strategy, and the dreaming.
Without fail I have to say, the outcomes of the day, they love. They're surprised where they get to, the conversations that they have. Strength based approach would be definitely one, and that using Appreciative Inquiry. That's a big one for strategy.
Leanne: I've run some strengths workshops previously, and it's all about maximizing your potential, and really doubling down on what makes you unique and great. The feedback I sometimes get in those workshops is, "What do I do about my weaknesses?" Do you get that question a lot? What do you respond with?
Sue: [chuckles] That reminds me of a strategy day I did with with a board of a Tech company, and one of the members, even though I had requested that they put away their laptops and stuff continued to look at, and really wasn't engaging. We got to the part of the day where we were doing the aspirations, and it's all about giving them a future scenario, and saying, "Imagine that you're reading, that you've done this in the Financial Times. What does that look like, and what are your clients saying?" He just went, "It's saying that we're bankrupt, and we've gone under."
Leanne: Wow.
[laughter]
Sue: I went, "Okay." He is determined that we go there, and I said,"What happened for it to get to that point? What did you do? What did your company do?" I still made him go back, and think about what was happening in their world. What happened in their company to get to that point. That was a bit of a -- Some people would go, "Why aren't we doing it? If we don't understand our threats, and we don't understand this, we're not going to get there."
Actually, once you've got your aspirations, and you go to your results, and you have a look at what you need to stop doing, you'll identify your weaknesses. You'll say, "We can't carry on doing that in this way." It's a different way of getting there, and it keeps the brain in this lovely place of still going out to solve problems, and still being able to get the stuff out of the strategy there instead of going down holes. You have seen that right?
Leanne: Yes.
Sue: You've seen someone starts a, "Remember that time that that happened?" and everyone goes, "Yes." Suddenly they're off, and you're, "My goodness." It's not going to help them get to the purpose of the day which is to look at something new and different.
Leanne: That's a really great example. How do you steer them in the right direction if it does -- if there is a turning point in the room, and the mood changes? What do you do as a facilitator?
Sue: I call it. I notice it, so I just say, "I'm noticing that there is a bit of hesitancy in the room." If they've got a particular issue, I'll say, "Let's have a board." I use things like questions boards or holding pages. I can go and put their questions up there, because it's important to get it out and put it up there. Then I'll come back, and I'll say, "The purpose of the day is this. If we go there, I'm concerned we won't reach the purpose of the day," and then depending on the size of the group and who the client is there may be a follow up discussion just with the with one person, and saying, "You've got options here. What do you want to do with it?"
You can't ignore it. Otherwise it just just gets out of control.
Leanne: That's right. So you're recognizing it, and calling it at the time is probably a really great lesson learnt. If you ignore it, what can happen?
Sue: [chuckles] If you ignore it, and that has happened to me in early days, because I didn't have the confidence to do that. What happens is your day gets hijacked by some frustrated or angry individuals in the room who perhaps don't want to be there, or who perhaps are actually a bit afraid of what might happen. Don't trust the process for whatever reason or they have been made to come or whatever it is.
That can be hijacked, and you can end up having the sort of meeting which I've been a participant of which is that you don't achieve what you think you've come there, and and taken a day off work to to do, and that just ends up bwing frustrating to everybody.
Leanne: Absolutely. I guess the confidence to call it is a really important skill. In your observation what are some other really critical skills for facilitation?
Sue: The one that I mentioned earlier is to be able to think of the fact that you have -- it's not just the facilitation on the day. That you actually start the process, and get the purpose really clear at the start. I would say doing your preparation, and being clear about the purpose would be the thing that drives everything else.
Another key skill would be your ability to read what's going on in the room, and pick up the temperature. You'll know when you are having your -- If there's small group discussions, if there's not much noise coming as opposed to a lot of noise. You know what what's actually going on.
To react and change depending on what's going on. In my head I might have sorted what I think decisions might be in what order they might go, but then when the group comes together I may need to change the way that I do that. I still have exactly the same purpose clear in my head, but I may need to change the way that I do it. I may need to put bigger groups together or smaller groups together or mix them up or play some music or something.
Leanne: Just like a trigger point-
Sue: Yes.
Leanne: - to change the mood. When you run sessions you facilitate to a variety of different audiences, what do you actually change when it comes to pitching to a different type of audience? Do you change anything at all? Or is it just the way that you deliver the material? Does the material stay the same?
Sue: I do mix up the material. What doesn't change is the process to get to the purpose, and the outcome in terms of asking the questions that I ask like what do want out of the day? That remains the same. What I put together is customized for who's in the room, so if it's a group that know each other well, that's completely different from a group that don't get together or you've got a group of stakeholders who've never been together on their own before.
The types of things that I might do in that situation are different, and the way that I might design the day will be different than an in-house team, for example.
Leanne: I really like that you keep referring to the preparation, and I think you should write a blueprint on this. I would find it really useful.
Sue: I'm happy to share. After I have been to my initial meeting with with a client I do a note back to them, and I use the same template which talks about first of all what I do, and it makes very clear, because often, there's a lot of them invisible stuff that goes on for a facilitator in terms of preparation and design of the day. I make it very clear in what they're buying, and they're buying my preparation design and planning as well as the facilitation of the day, and follow up and potentially.
Then I outline in dot points what the current situation is, so what heard I repeat back to them, "This is the situation you're currently in. This is the outcome you want from the day, and the purpose. This is the number of people that will be in the room, and how long we've got, and this is my fee." They get a one page, two pages max back which I say, "I want you to check that I have got this right. Have I got this right in terms of your current situation, and what you want out of the day, and are you saying yes to this?"
That then leads into the the next part of the process which is the co-design of the work with them. I'm happy to share that. Happy to share that template.
Leanne: Yes, great, I would love to. Awesome. If you link it to your website we can pop a link on our show notes to that template.
Sue: Sure.
Leanne: Just the questions that you ask could be really useful. Talking about the group of stakeholders you mentioned before when we're talking about diverse audiences, and there is some people that are coming to these workshops, and they've never met each other before. How do you get them to start working together? Do you use a particular icebreaker? How much time do you give them to start talking and engaging in the workshop?
Sue: I don't know if you find this Leanne, but often my clients want a lot done in a short space of time.
Leanne: Yes. [chuckling] I think that's universal.
Sue: Yes. Whatever I can put, and whatever preparation I can do before they'll get in the room I will do. I will send things besides the agenda which I send to everybody before the meeting. I will send a note to people. If I think they're going to be particularly tricky, I will have conversations with people or I will give them the opportunity to talk with me or to the various participants in the room if that's what they need. They often don't. They just want to know what's going to happen in the day.
My agenda says, purpose of the day at the top. It then has an outcome for each session. What the result of each session is going to be? The timing for it, so they can see really clearly how it all relates back to the purpose. That helps before they come into the room. If they don't know each other, we can do something like just an introduction.
The particular icebreakers I use, I sometimes around clearing the space which is a neuroleadership one which is making sure everyone's brain is ready to come in so we talk about turning off the other apps that might be on. Actually going through, and talking about what those apps are that are open. In terms of I'm thinking about a paper I've got to get finished by the end of the day, I'm feeling nervous about that, but I'm willing to put that aside, so they they do this very quick process where they clear it.
For people that don't know each other at all, I sometimes use the different things that are in the room. Like the situation that we're in, so they might be if they're in a room that has lots of books I'll get them to pick a book that they think is the title of their life or something.
Leanne: Nice. I like that.
Sue: It just depends. Or if they were a song what would they be? It really depends again on the group. There's some groups that there's so much potential to turn it into a threat response to do anything like that. It's just about introducing them to the person next to them and that's it for a start.
Leanne: I know I've been in environments where the facilitator would say, "We are about to do an activity," and you can see people get a little bit anxious about, "What kind of icebreaker are we doing this time?" and [crosstalk]
Sue: yes.
Leanne: - those environments, so I think it is important to really recognize the characteristics of your group, the dynamics and which icebreaker, if you do use one will be most appropriate, and how came out or open up with each other?
Sue: That's true, and that brings me to the groups that I that I'm really lucky to facilitate for CQ; Collective Intelligence. What they do is they -- because they meet three times a year. They're from all different industries, ages, and stages in their world, and when someone new comes into their groups they do this really cool exercise where we get them to draw a line on a whiteboard with one end being the day they were born, and the other end being today, and then they basically put dots or lines above and below the line to highlight the key things in their life that have created who they are now. The things above the line are the positive things that have happened. The things below the line have been the tough stuff that has happened. That's a really nice way of doing us a succinct this is me, but that's in a group that there's -- they're building high trust, and they know that they get together in this high confidentiality. I wouldn't do that in one of my strategy days with a team that don't know each other.
Leanne: Can you tell us a little bit more about the CQ, your collective intelligence group that you have in New Zealand?
Sue: Yes, sure. Collective Intelligence have about 200 members, and teams of about eight or nine and see CQ's purpose is around growing the effectiveness of leaders, and using using diversity, and different ways of thinking about the will to get that. For example, we might put together --People in the group might be from a construction industry, the wine industry. They might be a C.E.O., they might be a new entrepreneur with a start up tick, and I think that's part of why the magic happens. What they do is they sometimes focus on someone's business, and that person will have a key question for their business that we'll all go in and facilitate -- our facilitator session around interviewing maybe their clients, maybe their business partner, people in their business. It might be about them personally as a leader, it might be about them as a person in terms of how they show up at work and at home. It can be anything.
It's the most wonderful landscape to facilitate, and because the people have already signed up for vulnerability. The members are all there because they want to know their blind spots. For me, it's just such a privilege to facilitate in that sort of group, I have to say.
Leanne: It sounds like a really great group, and I'm wondering if we have an equivalent over in Australia. I will have to look into it.
Sue: I'm not sure. I don't think so. CQ and the way that it operates that it keeps the groups going because some of them are in their five years or so. I don't think so. I think the closest would be mastermind groups.
Leanne: Yes. I've heard of that concept.I notice that you mentioned vulnerability when you were talking about CQ, and that you're also a Brene Brown certified Daring Way coach. Can you share with us what is does that actually mean? What do you cover in your workshops?
Sue: During work stuff it is as a huge part of what I bring to my work now either directly talking about it or what's [inaudible 00:22:59] the background for me. It's around understanding vulnerability and courage, looking at issues around authenticity, how shame shows up in our world, and I'm talking about the leaders in the leadership organizational development space. About professionalism and what stops us doing, and vulnerability which is about risk uncertainty, and emotional exposure, and how we deal with that it in a work environment.
My work is around those sorts of issues which is big.
Leanne: It's pretty deep.
Sue: Yes, it is.
Leanne: How did you -- I guess it is part of the certification. Do they teach you how to work with people that discover things for the first time in your workshop, and it's a bit of revelation, and they don't know what to do with that information? It could get quite heavy. I guess you're nursing experience would help then. How do you work with someone that's really just discovering -- It could be the shame or just information about them they didn't know before they walked into your room.
Sue: With care, and with understanding that I'm not working in a clinical environment with them. That it is not therapy, and so very much in the leadership space. It is around getting the concepts of what it means to them as leaders. In our certification process it's very much about us being very comfortable, and having gone through our own work to do the work, so it's very much about us understanding the concepts, and having a facilitation practice that we can put that into.
The facilitation training that you do to use Brene's research assumes that you have a practice already, and that you understand the issues around how to keep a group safe ,and work with them, work with leaders. In terms of how I deal with that, I use it in the same way. I wouldn't, for example, for effect, we've got another facilitator and I are doing a weekend workshop for women around authenticity and leadership and how they show up at work. We won't be going straight to shame. [laughter]
We won't be going there. We'll build up to that. The first things I'll be looking at are there values and trust? Then moving into how they show up at work, and talking about their arena at work, and the armor they need to take off, so there is this beautiful use of metaphor in Brene's work which people connect with.
Again, it's just in the way -- Well, I say just. It is in that you care for the person to get there, and make sure that they don't have a threat response, and then can contribute and participate in the work.
Leanne: I'm just curious, what if -- I don't know if you have run this workshop before, but I'm interested in hearing what are the barriers that you do see about people not being authentic in the workplace?
Sue: The authenticity place, we've all grown up, in fact we do it as facilitators. There will be identities that we want people to see [unintelligible 00:26:39] like we want to be seeing as a confident ,competent, can do it, take care of them facilitator. We want to [crosstalk] Yes. We want to be that. That is an identity we want to get . The unwanted identity is, I don't want them to see that I am peddling so hard under here. I don't want them to see that it's just been a shame trigger for me, and I'm wondering what the hell I do about that? They have got all this unwanted stuff.
Somewhere in between these identities there is us. The authentic Leanne that is the facilitator or, so in the room it's the same thing, whereas a leader it's the same thing. It's about recognizing what gets in the way of our authenticity, and sometimes it's those identities. Sometimes it's our own shame about what we are -- keeping us small and not wanting to show up. Sometimes it's the fact that we just don't have the capacity to deal with that uncertainty. We won't go there.
The types of conversations you can have with leaders are absolutely around that stuff. Getting them to reflect on and understand what is their own story around -- that gets in the way of their authenticity, be it shame, be it not wanting to put ourselves out there, wearing armor.
Leanne: I was reflecting on that right now, because even during this podcast, not this episode in particular, but when I first started out, I had come from listening to a podcast. Really professional ones where the interviewer had been doing it for decades, and I expected myself to swoon in, and be the same way. [chuckles] That's an identity I forced upon myself, but I think this is about keeping it real, and enjoying the conversation, and just learning from the people that I'm talking to. Keeping it real.
Sue: Yes, absolutely. The authentic Leanne.
Leanne: That's right, as someone who does stuff up, but can have a laugh.
Sue: Exactly right. I think that's exactly what for a first time facilitator is the toughest thing to do, but the authentic you is the one that you need to bring to the room. Whatever it takes as much as I'm talking about the prep, and whatever I do. Figure out for you what is the authentic facilitator.
The authentic Sue is different from the authentic Leanne in a way, but what we bring, and what we show up is the stuff that people will connect with.
Leanne: That's right, and different groups might take out different strengths from either of us as well.
Sue: Yes, absolutely.
Leanne: You mentioned the word threat as well quite a bit in our conversation. Does that link into David Rock's work, the SCARF theory?
Sue: Yes. That's the other part of my work, and that is around coaching. I'm a result certified coach with the NeuroLeadership Institute, and that's David Rock's research where he takes the latest neuroscience, and applies it to leadership and what that looks like, and what I love about that work, and how it fits with my daring way stuff is that there is actually quite a lot of common threads, but one has come from quite a sociological model, which is Brene's work, and the other has come from our brand. What he, and that work, points out is that if we go into a threat response, which we're much more wired to do, then we can't do the thinking and the problem solving, we can't use that part of our brain. It becomes a lot tougher to do.
He has this wonderful SCARF model, which I run through and make sure when I'm facilitating that I am addressing these things in the way that I design, and do the work. He points out that the five things that can lead to a threat response, status; people's status not being recognized, and for some people this is far more important than others. It can happen if something uncertain happens in the room. If you suddenly have someone going off on a tangent, or you suddenly change something from the agenda, for some people that will SCARF them, that will make them go into a -- I wasn't expecting that. My goodness, what else is going to happen?
Leanne: My gosh. I was in a boot camp yesterday just on that, and there's just this boot camp, 6:00 in the morning. We're assigned at our stations, and then the personal trainer is like, "Sorry, you're meant to be in group B. I stuffed up." She was really, "Hang on. I'm meant to be here. This was the station you assigned me," and I recognized that. I was like, "That's so interesting. She wants that certainty." She thought she was right, and then very simple mistake, but it did put her offside.
Sue: Absolutely, yes. As soon as it happens, we can't problem solve. We can't contribute in the same way that we could if we weren't SCARF'ed. Status and certainty. Te next one is autonomy. That I feel like I have some choice in the matter, that something that's important to me, I can make a decision about that. The way to bring that into a facilitation might be if the group have all the stuff they want to do, you might say, "You can choose between doing A or B. Would you like to do this in smaller groups or bigger groups?" That gives a sense of autonomy. There's still something they have a choice about.
The next one is relatedness, and that is that there is a sense that we are all in this together, and that I am part of this, and I'm not being isolated. If there's something going on in a group over here, and there's someone over here thinking, "I'm not participating in that. I don't feel like I'm part of that. I'm isolating." We can definitely go into a threat response around that.
The final one is F; fairness, and that is what's going on is fair. That's a pretty strong one for me, I have to say. If I think something's not fair, then I get a bit up in arms, and an example from yesterday actually is I've been watching a nurse's blog. I'm interested. There's a paid talk going on on the moment, and a couple of nurses had set up a Facebook page called Nurse Florence. The most wonderful nursing stories that come out. The nurses are telling these stories about their work, and they put up a thing yesterday to say that someone had been trying to shut them down, had gone onto Facebook and say this shouldn't -- that Nurse Florence wasn't an actual person, so they shouldn't have this website. The fairness thing in me is strong. That's just not right. These guys need to be able to tell their story, and it's important, and too bad for whoever is wanting to shut them down.
In terms of a facilitator in SCARF, keeping people away from a threat response is making sure when you design and run the day, that you are acknowledging each of those things and in fact, moving them into a reward state where they will use their brain. Giving them a lot of positives about working together, and making decisions, and that they're bringing knowledge to the room, for example, will acknowledge their status. It's not just about the threat response, and not getting there. It's also about acknowledging that to keep them in their lovely moving toward space.
Leanne: How do you find out which -- out of the S-C-A-R-F, how do you find out which ones the strongest for you? Is there an assessment, or do you -- because I was listening to what you were saying, and I think I'm autonomy, but is there a quiz that we can do? How do you figure it out?
Sue: I know in my coaching notes there is a -- in what I use with my coach clients, there is a SCARF, "Let's Think about it" model. It's pretty simple in terms of just going through and defining which each of them are, and you going, "I can see that in me, and I'm more this, but status is not a big one for me, but it can be sometimes. It's a great one to reflect on, and also then to notice when you have been SCARF-ed. Like, "I can see that there's an autonomy thing here. I need to have some choice. I can see that I've been SCARF-ed."
Leanne: Or consult. I'm going to start thinking about that this week. See where things trigger me. You've mentioned Brene Brown and David Rock. Are there any other books or resources that you could recommend to someone that's starting their facilitation journey?
Sue: I sure can. There is a book that I found once I moved from just occasionally running meetings or teleconferences, and someone actually asked me to facilitate, and I had that word connected with whatever I was going to do. I found a book called Facilitation Secrets. It's by an American guy called Michael Wilkenson, and it was like, "Oh my goodness, this is just the best." The thing that I still carry from that book that I learned very early was getting clear about the purpose of the day, and then using a lot of meta communication through the day to make people clear where you are in that purpose. You're saying, "We've just done session one. The purpose of that session was this. It ties into that. We're now moving to this part. The purpose of this, and how it attaches to the bigger purpose," to give people confidence. Again, it comes to SCARF doesn't it? A certainty around where they are and what happens. That book there for me was a bit of a game changer in terms of giving me the tools to make this rather shy, introvert, feel that I could confidently step forward. It was pretty important to me in those early days.
Leanne: It's probably a bit of a dog eared version at the moment, or have you-- [crosstalk] the latest version?
Sue: No, it's an old version, and it's just covered in -- I've got so many of those sticky things sticking out the side, those tabs. There's too many, really. [laughs] There's just so many of those little tabs in the book.
Leanne: [unintelligible 00:37:31] highlight. Well, we'll have to link to that book in the show notes. Hopefully it's still out, and being published. Maybe one day I'll get to interview the author of that book if it was so influential.
Sue: Wouldn't that be great? I think it would definitely be out there, because he has a company called, I think it's called Leadership Strategies. They have a website, and they offer courses, and I know they offer courses in Australia. Definitely there's an opportunity to use his work.
Leanne: We'll check it out. It's been so wonderful hearing from you today about your journey, the models that you use, the vulnerability, SCARF, books that you recommend, and really all leading back to how you prepare for your workshops in terms of the questions that you use, and finding out what the purpose is. Finally, where can people find you if they'd like to hear more from you?
Sue: Look, can I just say thank you Leanne for the opportunity to talk with you?
Leanne: You're very welcome.
Sue: The fact that I had to reflect, and think about what had been going on. If people want to find me, I'm on LinkedIn, and I have a website, which is artemisgroup.co.nzd in New Zealand, and I'm on Twitter, although I'm a pretty bad tweeter. LinkedIn is a pretty good way to find me.
Leanne: Awesome, and just a quick question. Final question. Why did you decide on the name Artemis?
Sue: Because I'm into a very -- from about 15 years ago, I was very much into goddesses. I thought woman should be -- all women are goddesses, even if they don't know it. I wanted a goddess name for my company, and I chose Artemis, because she is a warrior goddess, but she's also known as a nurturer. She's got a tough, can get out there and do the work, but she's also a nurturer of plants and animals, and she's the sort of patron goddess of midwifery.
Leanne: Perfect. That's sounds exactly like you. [laughter]
Sue: Yes.
Leanne: What a perfect match. Look, Sue, thanks so much again.
Sue: You're welcome. Thanks Leanne.
Episode 6: We need more mindful leaders (and we need them right now) with Rachel Grace
In this First Time Facilitator episode, we hear from consultant, Rachel Grace, on how she facilitates and leads mindfulness workshops; and coaches people to adapt to the rapid change of modern day work-life and society. Rachel believe the world needs more mindful leaders and they need them right now.The skill of mindfulness isn't only important to our leaders. It's an essential skill for a facilitator to remain present in their training/group workshop environment, and to not think about what's going on in the outside world; or worry about what's ahead. It's about listening, staying focused and tuning in to the non-verbal 'clues' in the room.
In this episode you'll learn
The definition of mindfulness (Tip: It's not about having a blank mind)
Why mindfulness isn't just hippy, fluffy stuff
How you can start gaining the benefits from mindulness after 15 minutes
Why businesses who want to be more agile need to start developing agile minds
Why mindfulness and neuro-agility is a key skill set in navigating a VUCA (volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous) world
About our guest
Rachel has first class honours degree in psychology and over 10-years experience in researching, understanding and working with individuals and organisations to change human behaviour. She's paired her formal training and work experience in psychology and leadership coaching, with a long stint working on permaculture and commercial organic farms.She has worked with individuals privately and with leaders in organisations from across the public, private, higher education and healthcare sectors. In amongst all of that, she has strung together serious training in meditation and now has 20-years experience on the path, a daily personal practice and the scientific literacy to know that the benefits of mindfulness is not just hippy-fluff. It’s an evidence-based skills with an unbeatable capacity for transforming people, their work and organisational impact.
Resources
Transcript
Click here to view the full First Time Facilitator transcript with Rachel Grace.
Episode 5: How to use humour to deliver x-factor presentations (and laughs) with Andrew Tarvin
In this First Time Facilitator episode, we hear from Humor Engineer, Andrew Tarvin on how he crafts and embeds comedy into his presentations and work life. Andrew provides simple, actionable tips on how to do this; and why it's important to brings laughter into the workplace.
In this First Time Facilitator episode, we hear from Humor Engineer, Andrew Tarvin on how he crafts and embeds comedy into his presentations and work life. Andrew provides simple, actionable tips on how to do this; and why it's important to brings laughter into the workplace.
In this episode you’ll learn:
Simple hacks you can use to add humour in your workplace
Why using humour consistently can change behaviours (people start to perceive meetings differently and creates engagement in the long-term)
How to start introducing humour by trying one or two things with your emails
How Andrew developed and rehearsed his TEDx speech
Why he suggests first time facilitators should take improv classes
About our guest
Andrew Tarvin is the world’s first Humor Engineer, teaching people how to get better results while having more fun. He has worked with thousands of people at 200+ organizations, including P&G, GE, and Microsoft. Combining his background as a project manager at Procter & Gamble with his experience as an international comedian, Andrew’s program are engaging, entertaining, and most important, effective. He is a best-selling author, has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and TEDx, and has delivered programs in 50 states, 18 countries, and 3 continents. He loves the color orange and is obsessed with chocolate.
References
Transcript
Episode 3: Conquering your fear of public speaking with expert trainer and facilitator, Nikki McMurray
Nikki McMurray has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. Her roles ranged from managing registered training organizations, managing the training function within organizations and facilitating.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL FIND OUT ABOUT:
How she used to throw up before speaking in public and how she overcame that fear
How she manages the participants (and her own) energy levels over a five-day workshop.
Why it’s important to shut the world off (and your phone) when you’re in a learning environment
Why you need a sense of humour when working on the road
Her strategies for ensuring introverts are heard in a group workshop
Her simple hack that ensures participants grasp the instructions of a group activity
The two things she would do differently if she had to start her business again
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Nikki McMurray has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. Her roles ranged from managing registered training organizations, managing the training function within organizations and facilitating.Her facilitation style is respectful to the adult learner’s past experience and qualifications with a hands-on, highly interactive approach with a focus of connecting theory with practice.Clients comment that programs and personal coaching conducted by Nikki are high quality, very practical and personally challenging.She has a diverse background that includes consulting in a training and on the job coaching capacity to Mining open cut and underground (coal and hard rock), Rail, Water, Gas, Manufacturing, State and Federal Government industries as well as many others.
REFERENCE
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Leanne: I'd like to introduce you to our guest today. She has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. And as a facilitator, she's terrific at really honing in, and evaluating the dynamics of a group. She ensures that all of her sessions are hands on, and interactive with the focus on connecting theory with practice. Her background expands consulting, training, and coaching for industries for a company called ‘Corporate Learning Partners’. And she's worked in open cut and underground mining, rail, water, gas, manufacturing, and government. Welcome to the podcast, Nikki McMurray.Nikki: Thanks LeanneLeanne: Nikki, 25 years is a long time to be working in education and learning in development. Have you ever had a career outside of that industry?Nikki: Yes, in the very early days, I was in IT and then I went into Marketing. And I happened to get a job in the world of corporate adult education, fell in love with it, and haven't left it since.Leanne: So do you think some of the IT, and marketing skills helped you where you are today?Nikki: I think absolutely, absolutely. And you know even though you're in the industry of adult education, you're actually in everyone else's industry. It's not just adult education in its purest form like a university. You're in and out of different industries, and that's what makes it interesting and exciting.Leanne: How did you actually get into the world of facilitation and education?Nikki: I took on a job as a coordinator of P&O and it was in their training and education area. I really enjoyed the vibe, and the excitement, and the enthusiasm, and the fact that when you partake in skills or knowledge there’s a certain amount of excitement for the participants, and sometimes even nervousness.From there, I went to uni at night, and then studied adult education. And I was actually not a facilitator for a very long time. I stayed in Administration, and I worked my way up to being a site manager for a computer training firm that concentrated only on corporate. And about 12 years ago, I walked away from corporate, and started my own business. And that was the first time I ever facilitated full time. So it was pretty scary, and exciting.Leanne: So you came from an admin background and then to managing client training in organisations, do you think that helped you when you became a facilitator?Nikki: Oh absolutelyLeanne: In what way?Nikki: I think it’s because I focus primarily on leadership workshops and I have been a manager for many years. Therefore I have a really good understanding of a lot of the issues, and the challenges leaders face in the workplace. And most of those challenges don’t vary from industry to industry. So I can relate. I'm very empathetic and compassionate for all the leaders I work with now as a coach and a facilitator in their area of leadership. Because there probably isn't a challenge that they're having that I haven't had myself in real life, where I tripped and stumbled as well.Leanne: I guess it helps because you can talk the language when it comes to feeding back information to clients about what's going on in the training environment too. And then provide feedback on what they can do to continue building on a person’s ability after you’ve left.Nikki: I think that's what good adult education is all about; sustainability, making sure that things are handed over in a manner that is easy for the individual to contextualise back in the workplace. For them to be out and go back and know “I can do this” and “I might probably trip and stumble little bit”. But I was warned I was going to trip and stumble, but I want to do it bad enough that I'm motivated to push through.Leanne: Yeah, that's really good insight into embedding all those learning strategies. Any other tips on doing that? Because I think it's an area where companies struggle. You can go in with approach of…, oh we're going to run this workshop, and then we expect people to change instantly. But we know that's not the case. What do you recommend to a client?Nikki: The number one best way of getting a return on investment when it comes to adult education is ensuring that before the individual goes to whatever the learning is - a meeting occurs between them and their one up. A discussion occurs about the workshop objectives and what do you personally need to get out of this. And then a follow-up meeting. That is the number one way of getting a return on investment.Participants walk into my learning environment with all different expectations. Some purely for lunch. Let's get serious - unfortunately, that is true. A day off work and I should get a really nice lunch here.Others come in with no real idea, but just happy to be there. You know I’m a new people leader, and I just need anything you can give me. The ones that get the most out of it actually come in with very specific challenges. You can't remember everything from a one to even a three day workshop. You're only going to really remember what's relevant, and what you need.So if you come in without anything really in mind, you probably walk out going, “Wow that was really interesting and I met some nice people.” But none of the tools will have really stuck for you because there was nothing in it in the first place, unless a challenge through the workshop comes to mind, and then you start zeroing in on how you can fix that. But it's amazing how many people come into a workshop with no understanding of even what we're going to be covering. That one-on-one meeting with the boss before and after is important.Leanne: Okay, so let's just say that you do have participants in the workshop, and they've got no idea why they're there. As the facilitator, you expect there has been some sort of conversation. How then do you manage that and bring them into the learning journey?Nikki: I think that through activities and discussions you start getting an understanding of where they're at in people leadership, how much experience they've got, and the confidence level. And normally by that confidence level, you can probably guess the areas that they probably find challenging. It’s probably not even on their radar because they're avoiding it.Leanne: So you talked a lot about the participants pre-work. But I just want to talk about your preparation before a workshop. And I know in our work together, we'll have a workshop that starts at 10:00 in the morning and Nikki will show up at 7:00 in the morning to get the room ready. Is it sort of like a ritual that you've had over the course of your time in this environment - that it's really important to prepare?Nikki: I like at least an hour and a half, and if I have more, I’ll take as much as I can get. I think it's really important to be very familiar with your environment, with the technology that's available, and also the way in which you want the room set out. The way in which the room set out, the music that you've got playing all set a tone for when they walk in the door, and that also includes your own preparation. I am a huge prepper. People ay to me all the time, “Oh I just wing it.” That might work for them but I would never ever do that. I just can’t.I do a lot of preparation even if I'm running the same program over and over again. And the room and making sure that it set up the way you need it be, to work the participants is really important. You've got to be thinking ahead of the types of activities you’re doing, type of space that you've got available, and be able to utilise everything that you can; the best way you can. That might be walking in and rearranging the whole room that someone has so kindly set up for you - because we thought there were going to be 16 participants and now we find out that there's going to be 12. It's nice that it's cozy and intimate if we have smaller numbers. But it also it's important that they're comfortable if there are large numbers, and there's always enough space for everybody. A lot of the organisations I work for are very male dominated. Girls/women I find don't find it too hard being a bit more squashed in; where the guys like a little bit more space.Leanne: You did mention earlier that some people are there just for the catering. I find that really interesting. A lot of the feedback sheets we get back, if the workshop has delivered the comments are about the catering. Is there an ultimate menu for workshops?Nikki: It's like air-conditioning. It'll never be perfect for everybody! And most organisations these days don't even do catering. Most people bring their own when it's in-house. So if people are lucky enough to actually get the company to provide the catering it’s normally a nice lunch because it's a free lunch.Leanne: The only feedback I have about that is I made the mistake once of serving cakes and sweet food at morning tea and hot savoury items that afternoon. And I didn't really hear the end of it! So switch those two around they will love the catering.Okay, so let's talk about energy. And a lot of workshop you facilitate run up to five day workshops. I’ve never done anything like that. Even after one day it can be pretty exhausting. How do you keep your participants moving along over the course of five days?Nikki: The course design is really important in regards to energy levels. As you know, I like to have them up and moving around approximately every 20 minutes to 30 minutes because I think that most of the people I work with don't actually sit at desks full-time. So they like sitting down but they're not used to it, and find it really hard to stay focused. If you have them moving around to doing activities or even just standing, it can make a huge, huge difference to the energy levels.For me personally, I'm pretty passionate about what I do. So I think it's important to shut the outside world off. You know everyone has things going on outside the learning environment. And I think it's really important as a facilitator that we're able to just to shut down turn our mobile phones off, as well as participants. Create that environment that's going to be best for them to get something out of the program. I am naturally pretty high energy.Leanne: I agree with that!Nikki: I do know a lot of people that are extreme introverts that do what I do, and they really work themselves up. That might be with coffee or a sugar hit first thing in the morning, a Coca-Cola, or something to just get themselves fired up. I don't need that. I just drink green tea. You don't need me in a learning environment with coffee. I’d be climbing the walls.Leanne: That's a really sort of great lead into a facilitation, and getting up in front of a room. Was that something that came naturally to you; public speaking, presenting in public?Nikki: No, I was petrified of presenting in public. Physically used to throw up.Leanne I think our listeners are grateful that you've said that. Because people that I've spoken to don't really have the confidence, and think that it's something that they can’t overcome. Obviously, you're one example of someone that's overcome it. What were the steps you took - how did you actually work your way up to becoming a facilitator you are today?Nikki: My father was very insistent that all of his children speak in public. He felt that if you had the confidence to speak publicly, you'd have the confidence to do anything you want in life. It wasn’t really about necessarily publicly speaking, and the skills about it. It was about having the confidence. Because if you look at what is the word people's biggest fear in the world, it's public speaking; next to spiders, and heights I believe.I did join the debating team, and I made a complete idiot of myself every single time I got up; that’s if I got up. Most of the time I was down the girl's toilet heaving. And when I did get up, I would go into flight; fight; freeze. I would freeze, and make squeaking noises. So every time I ever decided to join the debating team, there was always this huge sigh. “Oh my goodness she's doing it again. We've got no chance to get to the finals this year.” I left school knowing I would never speak in public. It was absolutely physically impossible.Very soon after I got a job, and I was asked after a few months working there if I could do a presentation to the board - that I was to walk in, there would be some questions, I would answer them, and then hop out.I was really honest with my boss and said, “Look, I can’t do that, and this is the reason why…”. They made it really clear it wasn't negotiable. And dad at times was asking me, “How’s your job going?” I said, “I love it, but I'm leaving.” And he said, “Why?” And I said, “They want me to talk, stand up and talk to board members. We all know what's going to happen.” So I'm just going to resign now. And he said, “Oh look, if you’re going to resign then you might as well give it a red hot go.”I went in with my resignation in my back pocket thinking you know, maybe I could throw it over the mess I might make. I did a lot of nodding and shaking my head trying to answer their questions with yes and no answers. After a while, one of the board members just said, “Look, you're wasting our time. Do you want to leave?” I just shrugged. I was going to resign anyway. I gave it a shot, and I walked out. One of the board members came up to me in the afternoon and said to me, “Are you scared of public speaking?” I said, “Petrified.” And he said, “I can help you with it.” And I said, “All right, it's okay, I’m resigning.”Dad kept saying to me, “You know how long are you going to run from this?” And I was like forever sounds good. There are plenty of jobs around. I'm not worried. I’m really skilled.And the board member talked me out of resigning, and took me under his wing. Over the following months, I got more and more confident. And it's something, even to this day that if I do not get up and do public speaking at least once a month, I go through all the nerves all over again. It's still there. It's now it's about managing it. So when people talk to me about their fears of getting up in front of a group of people oh, I can relate very well. I'm very empathetic.Leanne: So what would be your advice to someone that is a first time facilitator or wants to make that transition from subject matter experts to sharing their knowledge?Nikki: The more you do it, the easier it gets. Everyone that first rides a bike will fall off. Every time anyone gets up to publicly speak, they're going to make mistakes. It’s about motivation. It's about wanting to do it bad enough that you got to put up with the trips, and the stumbles, and the scrapes, and the bruises.If you really want to do it, you just need to practice just like when you rode a bike for the very first time. And public speaking is the same.You do it often enough, you can walk away from it. You come back you might be a little bit wobbly, but you're find your feet a lot faster. So practice makes perfect. I had plenty of people that I used to watch. Either for my own professional development, or watching someone before hiring them. So I know what made a good facilitator.It’s about using every opportunity you get to speak in public. Most people that don't like it when they're offered to do it, will run a mile. I did it myself. So the idea of it is is feeling motivated enough to get good at it to throw yourself in every opportunity you get and jump on board. It's not something you can read about and go, “Okay, it'll be like reading a book on how to ride a bike.” And then thinking, “After I've read the book, I can go and jump on the bike and I'm not going to fall off.”Leanne: You just absolutely have a great presence when you're in a workshop. And you look across participants, and everyone's really listening on your every word. If you had to pick one unique skill or superpower that you bring to the role of facilitator, what do you think that is for you?Nikki: Well I'm going to actually ask you. You've watched me a few times facilitate, so can I ask you what you…What do you think my superpower is?Leanne: Ok this is my observation as a client. When you’ve been running a session for a couple of hours I'll just drop in at lunch; or at the end of the day. I’ll ask you how the course been going with your participants. And very quickly you can go around the room and talk about each participant - pointing out things like ‘That person's not engaged at the moment’; ‘This person's a little bit quiet’; ‘I think the three sitting here is probably not a good idea, I'm going to split them up tomorrow’.You know exactly how each participant in that room is feeling, thinking, and their level of engagement in the workshop. But not only that, you've got solutions on how you're going to fix that, and make it better for them.. I think that's an impressive thing I’ve found about your facilitation style - identifying what’s going on in that room to an amazing level of detail. Would you agree with that?Nikki: It's my responsibility to ensure I have engagement. These people need to walk away with particular skills. And they’re not going to walk away with everything. But they should be walking away with two or three things that they can feel comfortable enough to use back in the workplace tomorrow. It would be very poor of me not to understand where my participants are going. And there's certain activities that I do first up to get a little bit more of an understanding of them, and give them the opportunity to talk about what they want to talk that about. There are certain icebreakers that I like using due to the effect that you get a little bit more of an understanding of why people are here, why they are in front of you and how much experience they have.Leanne: You mentioned a couple of icebreakers that you use to let down their guard, find more information about them, reasons why they're in the room, levels of experience. Is there a particular icebreaker that's your go-to one to find that information out?Nikki: I like to line them up in order of how long they've been a people leader for. Make a little bit of fun, you can’t open your mouth when you do it. Make sure that those hand signals are kept nice and clean also. From that, get them to then go down the line and introduce themselves. Ask them ‘Who are you, what's your role around here, how long have you been doing people leader’? Then I get them to team up, pair up with those that are least experience with those that have got more experience, and talk about what's their number one leadership challenge. And that's where we we find out who came in with something on their mind, and those that are just there not sure even what they're there to learn. But I think all senses are on high alert in that first one hour of the workshop as a facilitator.You’re really watching, and observing, and listening even when you're getting them to do an activity - you're listening to who's being more dominant than somebody else in the activity, who's being supportive of each other in the activity, who's sitting there doing absolutely nothing and looking a little bit concerned. You know because at the end of the day, we're going to have introverts, we're going to have extroverts. And we don't want the introverts walked all over.So in that first the first hour, I use the DISC model and I normally within the first hour will be able to work out who is where on the DISC model. That also allows me then to know what's the best way of communicating with them and where their stretch places would be. So I consider how far I can stretch them before they get us feel a little bit uncomfortable because you want a little bit of a stretch, but we certainly don't want to break anyone. We want them to be supported.Leanne: How do you then manage then bring in people that might be more quiet or reserved? How do you bring them into the workshop, and engage them?Nikki: With Dominance, we normally find they’re quite vocal. Not all the time, but quite often. They also they want to share their experiences and their stories. It's about allowing them the space to. But also making at times drawing the line and at times saying, “You know I think you're working too hard. Jeff I've heard from you for the last four times. I think you might want to have a break now. You’re carrying the load for all these other people. Let's hear from someone that hasn't said anything yet.” And it's about being polite and respectful - but also with a bit of fun. There's a little bit of tongue in cheek in being able to manage those personalities.Leanne: We spoke about earlier, there are certain skills of a facilitator - preparing is really important for you and making sure you use all of your senses, to see what’s going on, and then listening in to create a good dynamic. Is there anything else that a facilitator really needs in their back pocket?Nikki: I was thinking about this on my drive in this afternoon, and there are so many. And for every facilitator you asked that question to, it'll be something different. Now I am extremely high energy, so I know I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I can be quite overwhelming if you're a real introvert, and it's working out who is who in your zoo. You then moderate yourself of what's appropriate for this learning environment.But by really being prepared with your material you then have the energy, and the headspace when you’re facilitating to change very quickly on a dime.If you have’t prepared and you are facilitating, and things aren’t going well, the energy levels aren’t right, or people are becoming argumentative. It's very hard for you to throw in other strategiesIf you’ve got the content in your head, you can be quite flexible. And you can introduce different strategies all the time because you know your content well enough that it happens no matter what. You can then, in your head, while delivering the content be thinking about other strategies, and things you've got to do. That was probably a really long winded.Leanne: Aha! I love it. Long winded is good. Nikki: Because if you were to get up, and say the same thing. Like for instance an induction. But I can imagine if you ran inductions you would get to the point where you would memorise it. You would actually be able to think about other things while doing it. And you will notice other things because you know the content so well. Your head doesn't have to be all in the content.You'll be noticing people leaning forward, or arms folded, or looking at the window, or having a chat with the person next to... You'll notice all of those things because you know you material so well.Leanne: Yeah that brings me into an interesting story. Nikki kindly asked me to co-facilitate a session last year and it was part of a leadership course. So I studied, and studied, and studied on this model. I'd been working at a TAFE for the last six years, and I walked into Nikki’s workshop, and I delivered this session like it was at a TAFE. And after the workshop, Nikki said to me ‘You’re training them, and you’re not facilitating”. And I didn’t understand what she meant. I thought that was what I was meant to do. I was meant to train them, and teach them in this model. Then you explained that training and facilitating are two different skill sets. Do you want to expand on that a bit more?Nikki: Yes, so when you’re training someone; in something, you can work out their current skill and knowledge and then you feel that gap in a very quite structured manner.When you facilitate, there’s more of an expectation of these people are coming in with this certain amount of experience, and knowledge, and skill already. They’ve already got a fair bit, and it's about really pulling out what they already have in their heads.And so you will have someone that's got a lot of experience. You'll have someone in your learning environment with 20, 30 years experiences, and then you'll have someone with none. It's about managing the dynamics of the group - that those people who have got the experience are able to share it, and give those who have got no experience the opportunity to share how they would use that, and have a feel about it, whether they could see themselves using it, and then filling the gaps.Leanne: All right, so we've spoken a lot about activities, and energy levels. Let's talk about staging an activity. Do you go through a specific process when you do that?Nikki: I'll give you an example. I've been working with a company recently with people who are people leaders that have actually been chosen to co-facilitate with me on a leadership program.We put them through some facilitation skills to prepare them to be shoulder to shoulder with me in a learning environment doing certain sections of the program. And interestingly, they always choose flip chart activities. And they go, “They look like the easiest. I’ll do these.”It never ceases to amaze me how much chaos can be created in the manner in which they set the activity up. I'll give you an example. When I get people to do a flip chart activity, I first off show them each of the flip charts; Then I say to them, “In a moment I'm going to get you to stand up in four groups, and I'm going to give you one of these flip charts each. I'm going to get you to work on it for two minutes, or three minutes. And then after that, I will rotate your group to the next flip chart.”It's amazing that with these kind of facilitators they’ll start the commencement of the activity with, “We’re going to do an activity I'll get you all to stand up.”It never ceases to amaze me that when you get people to stand up, they automatically will start talking to the person next to them, wonder whether they meant to take a pen with them, or… And they don't even know the activity, but chaos has already being created.So it’s really simple things which are one of those things where we trip and stumble a lot. We'll throw at an instruction and everyone will go, “What did that mean, or what did she say about this, or what are we meant to be doing next?” And it will create this chaos, and you've got to bring them all back to the centre of the room, and then explain it again. And sometimes again.Leanne: So I guess you're saying prevention is better than cure here.Nikki: It isLeanne: Say, “Hey we’re going to do an activity. I'm going to explain it now.” Try and prevent them from standing.Nikki: I say that the moment they stand is the moment you will have them disengaged. They will suddenly need to go to the loo, get a cup of coffee, check they’re phone, be on their way to their activity. So it's best while they’re seated to give them as much information as you can. Then before they stand, let them know what's going to happen next. That's why I say “In a moment I'm going to get you to stand up, and I'll get you to work in groups; four groups. And each of the groups will be given a flip chat”… If you start the activity with, “We’re going to an activity I'll get you stand up.” The moment they stand up, it is so much more difficult to get them reengaged in finishing what instructions you need to do.Leanne: How do you manage preparing with flying, again keeping the energy levels, responding to e-mails, running a business on the road for most of the week? How do you do that?Nikki: You can't take yourself too seriously. When you work and live on the road, you've got to have a sense of humour because Murphy’s Law is just sitting there on your shoulder. You can have a whole week of what could ever go wrong, does go wrong. If you don't keep your sense of humour I think and if you take yourself too seriously you could end up being a very stressed, cranky, angry person.Leanne: How long has Corporate Learning Partners been operating?Nikki: About 13 years now.Leanne: Okay, and you mentioned that was the first time that you made into a full time facilitation role.Nikki: Yeah, so I went from managing training organisations, and walked out the door, and went into developing leadership programs, facilitating leadership programs.Leanne: So making that step from I guess full time employment to running your own business is a huge step. You have no idea how it's going to go.Nikki: Massive step.Leanne: Why did you make that step? What propelled you do that? Did you have any clients sort of on the books? Or you just thought you could do things better?Nikki: I actually felt that it was my natural next step. I'd been in the management area for a very long time. For those that are people leaders out there, you will hear know what I mean by you know, you get to a point where you go is this something that I want to continue doing. I got to a point where I was at the level of general management by the time I left. It was getting more and more paper orientated, not people - and I like being around people.So I thought, “Why not give it a go?” And it was a huge risk. I had no clients. I did have a very strong network of colleagues because I had for so many years worked with other facilitators I’d hired as contractors to do work for me. So I had a wonderful network, and an incredibly supportive network. There's a couple there that used to receive phone calls every night after I finish my day going, “I think this is wrong. And what do you would you do about that?” That network was absolutely crucial.Leanne: Looking back at starting a business, would you do anything a bit differently?Nikki: As mentioned before, you can't know everything when you take the leap of faith to do something. You've got a bit of knowledge about what you're doing. At the end of the day, I knew a lot about adult education, and I knew a lot about how to manage clients. I knew a lot about how you know, people would come to the training when I was a manager and say, “Look we think we need these, and this is the reason why”. I was already quite good at being able to interpret concerns, and put them into practical ways of moving forward.So it took a lot to the table from my experience. But you know registering businesses, organising GST etc when I had a mortgage and a kid in a private school. So you’re really juggling that. One moment I'm developing, the next moment I’m presenting, the next moment I’m invoicing then I'm having to follow up; juggling all of it. It was a huge learning curve. Yeah, so having a good accountant would be believe it or not right up there. And if I had to have a second one, it would be have a great network. Sometimes it's just nice to have a sounding board.Leanne: Will definitely put those two recommendations in our show notes for this episode. Where can people find you?Nikki: www.corporatelearningpartners.com.au has all the details. Plus a little bit about what we do, the tops companies we work for, and the work that we've done in the past.Leanne: Absolutely recommend Nikki, and her team. They do a stellar job in delivering anything that you've got.. So Nikki, thank you so much for coming on the ‘First Time Facilitator Podcast’. I've definitely learnt an awful lot to up my facilitation game. And I've already had some great feedback from you over the last year and a half. So thank you for that.Nikki: Thank you Leanne for the opportunity.
The 7 attributes of a superhero facilitator and how to rescue a workshop or meeting from a fate worse than death.
It’s Monday morning and you’ve donned your day job attire. You’re sitting in your cubicle, minding your own business, when suddenly a civilian colleague approaches. You chat about your respective weekends, then they pause and ask “Hey, what are you up to next Thursday morning? Can you facilitate our team meeting?”You feel surprised (and flattered) and accept. Moments after they walk away, you think to yourself “Why did they pick me? Why on earth did I say yes? I have no idea what to do!”Firstly, congratulations on saying yes! That’s a big win. Superhero facilitators are often caught off guard but are always up for the challenge. So it’s time to bust open the button-down shirt and reveal the proverbial multi-colour Lycra suit of Super Facilitator.For the purpose of this article, let’s define the responsibilities of a facilitator. A facilitator is there to:
- Guide people with different work styles, personalities and values through a process to reach the meeting objectives.
- Ensure active participation from all members of the group and draw out their opinions and ideas.
- Keep the group focused on the agenda and moving forward.
So, how does a facilitator carry out these responsibilities like a superhero (Lycra optional)?
1. A superhero might be able to see through walls, but they can’t see into the future. A superhero facilitator must predict and prepare for a number of possible outcomes.
Most skilled facilitators spend 2 to 3 times as long preparing than the amount of time they spend at the actual session. I think that’s a great ratio to work with, particularly if you’re just starting out.So, how on earth do you spend that preparation time? Superhero facilitators don’t leave any scenario unplanned for and they always have a plan B, C, D and E.
Who’s who in the zoo?
Dig into the details of the group, such as the individual personalities, their motivations, and the overall group dynamics. What’s the history of the group? Why are they seeking an external facilitator? Have they tried to achieve these meeting outcomes previously?
What does the successful superhero mission look like?
Examine the group’s objectives. What will it take from you to get them there? Do you think the allocated time is sufficient? What will you suggest as an option if an outcome can’t be reached in that time?
Is the space fit for purpose?
The environment and general climate of a meeting or planning session sets an important tone for participation. Is the site accessible to everyone? Is the space the right size? Is the audio-visual equipment a breeze to set up?
Make a checklist of everything you will need, down to the last minute detail.
I recently ran a session which required a deck of card to be cut in half. Ten minutes before the workshop commenced, I realised my laser vision was playing up and I didn’t have a pair of scissors handy. It was a stress that was neither necessary nor fun. Save yourself the drama and write down all of the resources that you’ll need.
Even everyday facilitators should have a structure and an idea of the general direction the session should take. Superhero facilitators however, know that nothing ever goes to plan. Having plenty of options to draw on will provide you with flexibility and allow you to change things up based on the group’s needs.I have been leading one-day induction sessions where a variety of speakers deliver consecutive sessions. As you can imagine, over the course of the day, there are times where we gain or lose time against the loose schedule. The first time the session ran I had only planned one back-up activity, which we used before morning tea. Lesson learnt. The second and subsequent times, I had five games up my (Lycra) sleeve and associated resources. Having that flexibility is important, will give you confidence and your future self will thank you for it.
2. A superhero facilitator never underestimates their audience’s basic needs.
Civilians, I mean participants, get hungry and lose focus and enthusiasm. Catering is important. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve read through feedback sheets and over 50% of the comments relate to food. I’m serious. From my experience, keep the hot savouries for morning tea and the sweets for afternoon tea. Grumbling stomachs take your participants’ minds off the meeting. Oh, and bad coffee is like kryptonite. Ensure good coffee, every time (or, at the very least point the participants in the direction of a great café and give them time to grab one). Sometimes this decision is out of your control, but a superhero facilitator will influence the decision.Speaking of distractions, you don’t need to use your x-ray vision to scan for non-verbal cues from the group. Hone in if someone appears to be disinterested and watch to see how that effects other members in a team. Are people shifting in their seats? Are they bored or looking confused? If they seem restless, either take a break, speed up or slow down the meeting pace.Sometimes you will need to match the activity you have in mind with the energy in the group (another reason to have a variety of them in your kit). Other times, you’ll need to find a new way to boost a low-energy group’s enthusiasm. Take care, notice your group’s energy levels and inject interest when it’s needed to help them operate at their best.
3. A superhero facilitator can segue like a boss.
Groups have a tendency to roam far from the original agenda and often need rescuing to bring them back to the core discussion. When you notice them wandering off, bring it to the group’s attention by saying something along the lines of “That’s interesting – perhaps we should get back to the original topic”. Bonus points if you can somehow segue the distraction into the next agenda item!Many groups will discuss an outcome for far longer than they need to unless you help them recognise that essentially, they’re agreeing on the point. If you pick this up, ask someone in the team to summarise the points of agreement.If one or two individuals disagree, state the situation as clearly as you can: “Lex and Lois seem to have other feelings on the matter, but everyone else thinks [insert statement here]. Perhaps we can decide to go in the direction that most of the group wants, and they can get back to us on other ways to accommodate their concerns.”Be wary when deciding where the meeting should go. Check back to see if there are questions and then summarise and provide the next steps or actions for the group.
4. A superhero facilitator has a sixth sense for group dynamics.
You need to find ways to ensure the entire group is on an equal playing field, and inclusivity is the name of the game. Sometimes you’ll need strategies to deal with disrupters, and like most potentially dangerous situations, I am of the firm belief that prevention is better than cure.At the beginning of the workshop, gain agreement on the agenda, ground rules and desired outcomes. Also cover what’s not in scope and highlight anything that’s not covered in the meeting. Building a relationship with a new group requires you to find some common goals and interests, shared values and outlooks. If power players are in the room, acknowledge their influence and role. Empower them by giving them a role to play during the meeting.Using this time at the start of the meeting will also allow you to get a feel for the individuals in the group; wall flowers who might need extra support and big hitters who may need to be managed.The ‘dominator’ is the most common workshop villain (aka disrupter). They try to steer the discussion away from what you’re meant to be talking about, have side conversations with the person sitting next to them, and attack others’ ideas. As a facilitator, your first step is to recognise that the floor needs to be shared around.
5. A superhero facilitator knows the right questions to pitch, at the right time.
Facilitators ask questions primarily to help participants clarify their thoughts and evaluate information. Use a combination of open-ended and closed questions. One framework you can employ is the APPLE technique:
- A – Ask the question.
- P – Pause to allow participants to comprehend the question and formulate an answer.
- P – Pick a member to provide an answer.
- L – Listen to the answer.
- E – Elaborate on the answers obtained.
Some good question-starters include:
- “Tell me about…”
- “What would happen if we…”
- “In your experience…”
- “What do you think about…”
6. A superhero facilitator draws on extraordinary interrogation tactics (Active Listening).
Mirroring, paraphrasing and tracking are three tools you can leverage to help you with active listening. Mirroring is when you repeat back the speaker’s words verbatim. It helps the speaker hear what they just said, shows neutrality and can help to establish trust.Paraphrasing is a way to show the speaker and the group that their thoughts were heard and understood. Unlike mirroring, paraphrasing is using your own words to explain what you think the speaker said. For example “It sounds like you’re saying [insert paraphrased content]. Is that what you mean?”Lastly, tracking is when you’re keeping track of various lines of thought that are occurring within a single discussion. It helps to summarise the different perspectives and show that multiple ideas are equally valid.
7. Superhero facilitators must bide their time – they have unwavering patience.
Like most missions worth embarking on, becoming an effective facilitator takes practice. The good thing is, you CAN learn all of these skills (and laser vision really isn’t essential).Remember, each group is different and as you sharpen your skillset, you’ll intuitively figure out what works best for the team, the meeting and the organisation.I’d love to hear your thoughts on this article. Do you think any superhero facilitator attributes are missing? Comment below.